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I just posted two pics of this rose, one of it's wicked thorns, and another of it's huge hips. It has the larges hips I've seen on a rose other than the chestnut rose. The new canes this year were thick, stiff and untrainable, but I am going to bend them down as much as I can without breaking them off so they bloom along their length next year. This rose should be planted where it can grow unchecked and unpruned into a huge natural shaped bush. I have just such a place in the backyard where it can fill in around the base of a tree I have Kiftsgate slowly climbing up.
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Great pics Bob. How is disease resistance for you there? Thanks, Robert
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It has been very disease resistant, surprisingly, given that is a Golden Showers kid, and that one turned black from blackspot and finally died when I grew it in Pennsylvania. Golden Threshold has been very resistant and it has two blackspot prone roses growing intertwined among its canes, Eden and The Alchymist, both of which got a good amount of blackspot this year but seem to have been unable to pass on a heavy infection to Golden Threshold, though it showed a few speckles here and there, but nothing of real note. If something is prone to blackspot, it wil be apparent very soon in my garden, as I do no spraying and just let disease pick the best roses out of all the ones I try. About one in four or five turn out to be superior roses for organic growing, even with all the hours of research I do before plunking money down on a new rose to try.
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Sounds great. Judging from those hips it might make a good seed parent too. Healthy yellows are always welcome. Thanks Bob. Robert
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#4 of 9 posted
12 SEP 08 by
Gene Jax
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Does it repeat for you in Virginia?
I have two of Golden Threshold, but neither has yet bloomed for me.
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No repeat seen here, but I did not deadhead it. It is adjacent to Crepuscule, Meidiland Alba, Eden, Secret Garden Musk, Lavender Lassie, The Generous Gardener and Souvenir de Madame Leonie Viennot, and I'm kind of hoping the bees crossed some of them with her for me, as it is covered now in huge ripening hips and I'm more excited to plant those seeds than anticipating rebloom. I have enough rebloomers around that others that do not for one reason or another are OK with me. I've gotten some very cool things from open pollinated hips before.
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#7 of 9 posted
16 SEP 08 by
Gene Jax
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I have emailed Girija and Viru Viraraghavan. Because of its incredible vigor and size, they think it is a rose for connoisseurs who have space. They say regarding rebloom on Golden Threshold:
"Golden Threshold flowers on one-year old wood so there will be no flowers the first year. From the second year onwards there will be flowering provided pruning is done correctly, i.e., retaining all healthy old wood. It is also important to train the plant properly, bending over the long shoots to as horizontal a position as possible. In Kodaikanal mature plants flower periodically throughout the year."
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Mine hasn't bloomed yet either Gene but then my climate isn't the best for gigantea and it's hybrids. I've got my fingers crossed for next Spring. My specimen is already two years old.
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Thank you for sharing the good quality pictures!
However, those prickles are far from wicked. The picture you shared looks fairly average and expected. Great to hear the disease resistance is excellent too.
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'Golden Celebration' also has huge hips, which look like small green crabapples.
I am glad to hear you are growing 'Alba Meidiland', IMHO, one of the best roses introduced in the late 20thC. It seems to grow anywhere from zone 5 to 10 or 11.
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It's sad that this rose is no longer being sold in the States
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#1 of 5 posted
8 FEB 20 by
Gene Jax
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Re the rose known as 'Montecito'. Nearly 20 years ago I checked with Clair Martin at the Huntington regarding the plant they grow. He told me that, according to Huntington records, it was a name assigned by John MacGregor when he was a botanist at the Huntington to a big climber he found growing wild on the old Franceschi property. Thus, Montecito could be a different Franceschi seedling or have some other related derivation. I believe Greg Lowery told me that the appearance of the found rose is consistent with its being a R. brunonii x R. gigantea hybrid. My current plant in Florida is from Vintage Gardens some years ago.
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So the name should be in double inverted commas, as a study name?
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#3 of 5 posted
9 FEB 20 by
Gene Jax
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That's what I gathered from the information Clair could provide. No one really knows its specific identity Descriptions of Franceschi roses such as Montecito and Montariosa are sketchy in materials I've come across, so unless MacGregor came upon something substantial in his research that truly identifies it, I would think it should go in double quotes. It could be a named variety or just a seedling on the estate
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It's highly unlikely that this is a spontaneous seedling, I have been growing dozens of selfed seedlings from Montecito and Belle Portugaise for many years and they are all crap unlike Montecito which is incredible. I have never had a gigantea seedling spontaneously appear in the garden, they are notoriously finicky and die with the slightest excuse. John McGregor obviously thought this rose was reasonably Montecito and I'm happy with his view.. Virtually every old rose could be potentially misnamed if we want to be pedantic.
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#5 of 5 posted
9 FEB 20 by
Gene Jax
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John, you are probably right. It's hard to nail a lot of found roses with any high degree of certitude. (I am disappointed to hear self-Montecito seedlings are not good as I have one that will possibly bloom next year)
Recall, however, Rev. Schoener noted in the 1932 ARS Annual regarding both Montecito and Montariosa that
"Dr. Franchesci produced a few Gigantea hybrids. His Montecito and Montariosa are the two best known to me. Both are seedlings of R. moschata [brunonii] by R. gigantea, and both show very dominantly the musk character."
Musk character? On my Montecito the flower is definitely dominantly gigantea-like.
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Initial post
12 SEP 08 by
Unregistered Guest
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The form I am growing is from Peter Beales Nursery and is not the same as the form that I have seen in the U.S.
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#1 of 3 posted
13 SEP 08 by
 jedmar
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There are many different Teas and Noisettes which are sold under the same name by various nurseries. I was not aware that Chromatella is one of them. Can you post photos of your plant?
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#2 of 3 posted
13 SEP 08 by
Gene Jax
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It is depicted at the Peter Beales Nursery website under Chromatella's synonym Cloth of Gold. The form grown in California at San Jose Heritage Rose Garden accords with images of Chromatella in rose literature and is much more golden and refined. I have seen it in full glory at San Jose. I think it can be purchased from Vintage Gardens on the West Coast and Roses Unlimited on the East Coast
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The Beales clone is possibly Clmg white Maman Cochet, I have so far found no difference.
I correct myself, Although very similar this clone is more refined in all its parts. The flowers are always more open the foliage virtually disease free. Still not Chromatella though
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Is this a good rebloomer and does it have thorns? It seems like a lot of the hybrid musks are thornless?
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#1 of 1 posted
13 SEP 08 by
Gene Jax
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It is exactly like Prosperity, one of its parents -- practically identical in the clone circulating in the U.S., so much so that I can find no difference between Delhi White Pearl and Prosperity. I grow them side by side in Jacksonville.
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