HELPMEFIND PLANTS COMMERCIAL NON-COMMERCIAL RESOURCES EVENTS PEOPLE RATINGS
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I am a proud Australian. My profile illustrates that I am also a keen rosarian. Since visiting Mornington Botanical Rose Garden yesterday, it came again to me the sad conclusion that our "Cultural Cringe" is alive and well. I spotted two beds of Rosa 'Dame Elisabeth Murdoch', enclosed in two bays dedicated to and sponsored by that illustrious Australian lady. In view of her reputation and the great esteem with which she is held in Australia, I wondered just who chose this particular rose that was given the honour of her name. Be that as it may, it is an unremarkable rose bred in Germany, Rosa 'Speelwark', and to it second hand is given the name of a great Australian lady. The question needs to be asked as to why not an Australian bred rose? It is my opinion that that would be a much more appropriate option.
But then, "they" have been recklessly indifferent to recognising Australian bred roses since Alister Clark's roses were exported to America 80 years ago, resulting in the creation there of the "mystery virus" from Australia because of which we are still prohibited from exporting roses to USA. Recently the wheel has turned full circle, and we now don't accept roses directly from America. How in the past we have escaped "Witches Broom" and other "nasties" they have over there I don't know, and I expect that we can be very thankful for the protection of quarantine protocols.
During that period of time, it has been the practice of several Australian rose distributors from time to time, to bypass Australian roses and give a new name to an introduced rose, no doubt for commercial advantage. I will not name names. It is a historical fact, and it has happened with Rosa 'Speelwark'. Why is not an Australian bred rose chosen? Australian bred roses have been named for early explorers, and various religious centres of learning, but very few living Australians or significant national occasions. The centenary of Australian Federation was such an occasion, and rather than adopt an Australian rose for that celebration, "they" chose a rose with the name of a crazy cartoon-strip character, "Betty Boop"!!! In its gaudiness it may be attractive to many, but where is the innate Australian character befitting such an occasion? Australian roses were suggested, a very appropriate rose amongst them, but they were overlooked. Why? I am completely unaware how this rose was marketed with the new name Rosa 'Centenary of Federation'.
And now I see Rosa 'Rebell' has been renamed Rosa 'Australian Centenary of Federation'. Bred by Kordes of Germany in 2006, the connection with our federation, and how we got and why we need a second token of recognition of that occasion escapes me.
Australian bred roses are very good indeed, and compare favourably with those selected from overseas stock. In competition with roses submitted from overseas, Australian bred roses have performed very well at the Australian Rose Trial Garden in Adelaide for many years. A problem exists whereby growers and distributers in Australia dedicate their annual production to roses from their overseas principals in order to maintain the agency, to the almost total denial that Australian bred roses exist.
One brave Australian distributor is the exception, but it requires that the large rose interests and the general public seriously look at the quality roses available at home, and that are not generally made available to the general public.
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#1 of 44 posted
15 APR 10 by
Unregistered Guest
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This contriutor later decided not to participate in this discussion.
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George. Yes it may be unsettling, but we have to live with it, and I think the tide is turning towards Australian Bred roses. South Australian George Thompson and Victorian Bruce Chapman are doing great work, as is a new boy Warren Millington from Deniliquin. Check these pages for examples of their work. If only rests on the shoulders of Australian rose breeders to register their roses through the Australian Registrar for the free publicity available through free publication in Modern Roses 13.
Good Luck with your breeding. Consider contacting Australian Rose Breeders Association and Australian or New South Wales Rose Society for connections and information. We're all in it together.
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#3 of 44 posted
15 APR 10 by
Unregistered Guest
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Hmmm. Laurie, I can't help but note that your contributions to HelpMeFind do not carry that red star which indicate your help and support to this site!
Patricia.
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What does Austrailia have to do with Betty Boop?
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Rosa 'Betty Boop', an American bred rose, was chosen to recognise the Centenary of Federation for Australia. as if to say there is not an Australian bred rose adequate for this honour. Who made this decision?
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Gotcha. How often is this award given?
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Not an award, just a re-naming for commercial gain. There will no doubt be a rose named for the bicentenary in 2101 (of federation of the separate colonies in Australia, to become one nation).
I object to any rose being given multiple names for marketing purposes; and especially when a rose that already has a frivolous name is used to commemorate a special event or person.
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#9 of 44 posted
17 MAY 10 by
Unregistered Guest
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Australia (you included) should be honored and thrilled that Tom Carruth allowed such a marvelous rose to be co-named Australian Centenary of Freedom. Betty Boop is one of the finest to come out in past 30 years and it's obvious why the powers that be in your homeland were drueling over it. If Tom were from Tunisia or Antartica he would still be the King Breeder of the day.
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Welcome to an American friend to this discussion about why Australian bred roses are not chosen to commemorate a uniquely Australian event. We have any number of locally bred roses that may be used for such purposes, especially for this auspicious occasion.
To my limited knowledge, Rosa 'Betty Boop' is as I described it, a gaudy rose named after a similarly gaudy American cartoon strip character, completely inappropriate to be chosen for the occasion of the Centenary of Federation of THIS country. Perhaps this latest un-named contributor can enlighten us as to its being "one of the finest to come out in past 30 years". Perhaps this contributor can also direct me to some evidence of the superior qualities(?) of this rose, for I can find none.
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Dear Laurie,
Since you asked for evidence, you need look no further than the hmf roses site:
1. 14 favorite rose ratings- not bad for a relatively new introduction, eh?
2. check out the lovely positive remarks on this very "MEMBERS COMMENTS" site (a site which I must confess is a tad overladen with your Aussie inferiority complex diatribe, rather than RELEVANT comments about the subject: it's Betty Boop, isn't it?)
3. check out the awards tab for the Devine Ms Boop- WARNING: You may not have time to read them all in one sitting.
But then we certainly don't want to negate your obviously very strong feelings of patriotism with EASILY found facts now, or do we? Why not lighten up and deliver Ms Boop the applause she heartily deserves and leave politics out of the rose bed?
Personally, I agree with Empress Josephine who imported roses from the British despite their ongoing war with her Frenchmen and let's not forget Mr. Shakespeare: "A rose from whatever county is still a rose.."
Love from Los Angeles,
Tim
PS My brother Tad, who lives in Canberra, told me that Ms Boop has really painted the town. Enjoy!
PSS Since most of Mr Carruth's roses are so beyond magnifiScent here in LA, I'm sure you can experience the glory in Australia too- since we share your wonderful climate.
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I'm sorry Tim, I've obviously touched a nerve. The name is Laurie by the way. There is no doubt that Tim Carruth has bred and is still breeding good roses, but he is not alone. The measure of a good rose is not necessarily popular opinion. Better qualification for excellence is to be gained from recognition by rose experts, such as is had from Trial Garden exposure and success around the world, All-American Rose Selection awards, James Alexander Gamble Award for fragrance, to name but a few. Politics? I don't see any.
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Dear Laurie,
Maybe you didn't get chance to read the HMF Roses "AWARDS" tab on Betty, as I requested, but there you would find the AARS Award recognition that you seem to consider important, as well as MANY other awards. Why do you think the officials in Australia awarded it with the prestigious name in the first place? Don't you think they had any critera in choosing a rose for the title other than: it must be an American rose? As you must know, as a breeder, many roses have more than one name.
Personally I think popularity among we lowly rose gardeners is the proof in the pudding that a rose really works and satisfies. I've seen award winners and "rose of the year" selections fall by the wayside while less recognized roses have hung on to become classics because they have delivered to the public.
Anyway since Betty has been highly recognized by BOTH factions it makes your scorn for her all the more puzzling.
Now then, when you give Betty Boop a chance in your garden, and you must if you seriously want to live life to it's fullest (remember you did admit to limited knowledge of Ms Boop), no doubt, you will fall in love with and probably even begin to use her in your breeding program.
Humbly accepting your retraction in advance,
Tim
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My name is Tim and the legendary 13 time AARS winner's name is Tom Carruth.
If he were English he'd already have a title.
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Dear Mr Laurie Newman,
Please don't deprive yourself of the superberific Della Reese, Crystalline, Ebb Tide, Wild Blue Yonder, Memorial Day, Rock & Roll, Legends, Barbra Streisand, Julia Child, Stainless Steel etc etc etc etc etc, just because they weren't bred by a citizen of Oz. Life is to short to live in your puritanical state of patriotic celibacy and restraint. Imagine if Dorothy had stayed in just Kansas!
Barbra Sreisand didn't wait for a New Yorker, Oprah didn't wait for a Tennessean, and Julia Child didn't wait for a Californian... they all called on Texan Tom Carruth because he's the Rose King of the World.
LONG LIVE AND ALL HAIL (and SMELL the roses of) THE KING!!!
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#13 of 44 posted
17 MAY 10 by
 Cass
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I agree with both of you.
In my opinion, while we are expressing opinions, the Australian centenary should be commemorated by a rose bred by an Australian hybridizer. Nationalism should include honoring the home-grown.
I also think Tom Carruth is a prolific, successful and innovative hybridizer, producing terrific roses - a remarkable line of "Carruth blue roses" (Stainless Steel, Blueberry Hill, Barbra Streisand, Outta the Blue, Route 66, Neptune, Midnight Blue, Wild Blue Yonder, Night Owl, Ebb Tide); the russet Hot Cocoa; and many other commercially successful roses like Scentimental, Moonstone, Fourth of July, About Face, and Julia Child. One man's tasteful is another man's boring. Carruth works with a full palette of colors.
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Dear Cass,
I hate to disagree with someone who bears my favorite name, and someone who gows so damn many roses, but....
Who cares where a breeder was born? It's the rose that counts! Pick the guy or gal who does the best job, or grows the best rose in this case. Who cares what side of a borderline somebody slipped out of a uterus? Since I was enlightened by people like Cass Elliot and her friend and your neighbor, Joan Baez, I don't go for all this flag waving stuff. Sadly, I think Laurie was doggin Betty soley because of her national origin.
PS
Why don't Cass, Joan or Aretha have roses named after them? Maybe Laurie could create them if he isn't focused on one for Olivia or the Bee Gees?
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#17 of 44 posted
17 MAY 10 by
Unregistered Guest
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Sorry if I offended anyone with my mistake. I respect all sexes equally, so no harm intended.
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#19 of 44 posted
17 MAY 10 by
Unregistered Guest
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#25 of 44 posted
18 MAY 10 by
Cass
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Tim: I have not burdened these comments with what nationalism should NOT include. I am not waving the flag. I said "Nationalism should include honoring the home-grown," and I'll go to my pacifist-Northern California-wingnut-commie-pinko-radical grave saying the same thing.
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To Unregisterd guest, Laurie Newman is held in high esteem by many of his peers and rosarians in our part of world, if not in yours. True, Tom Carruth has many accolades to his name, but there are also many Aussie rose that are noteworthy.
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Transferred to end of discussion.
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All-America Rose Selection [ 1999 ]
Floribunda (One Bloom)
Show / Date(s): Albuquerque Rose Society [ 2000 ]
Blytheville Rose Society Fall Rose Show [ 2001, 1999 ]
Central Arkansas Rose Society [ 1999 ]
Glendale Rose Society [ 2000 ]
Green Valley Rose Society [ 2001 ]
Holston Rose Society [ 2000 ]
Lake Superior Rose Society [ 2001 ]
Lewis County Rose Society [ 2001 ]
Lexington Rose Society [ 1999 ]
Marion County Rose Society [ 1999 ]
Medford Rose Society [ 2001 ]
Mid-Hudson Rose Society [ 2001 ]
Mount Diablo Rose Society [ 2000 ]
NEW (Northeast Wisconnsin) Rose Society [ 1999 ]
Ozarks Rose Society [ 2001 ]
Rose Society of Greater St. Louis [ 2001 ]
Rose Society of Tucson [ 2001 ]
San Joaquin Valley Rose Society [ 1999 ]
Schenectady Rose Society [ 2001 ]
Scottsdale Rose Society [ 2001, 2000 ]
Shasta Rose Society [ 1999 ]
Tulsa Rose Society [ 1999 ]
West Valley Rose Society [ 1998 ]
Floribunda Spray
Show / Date(s): Gold Country Rose Society [ 1999 ]
Greater Gwinnett Rose Society [ 2000 ]
Marin Rose Society [ 2001 ]
Millen Rose Society [ 2001 ]
San Diego Rose Society [ 2001 ]
San Mateo County Rose Society [ 2001 ]
Seattle Rose Society [ 1999 ]
Twin Cities - North Star Rose Societies [ 2001 ]
Twin Cities Rose Club [ 2000 ]
Tyler Rose Society [ 1999 ]
York Area Rose Society [ 2001 ]
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#22 of 44 posted
18 MAY 10 by
Unregistered Guest
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Hey George,
If I had any say in it I would have been happy to choose Laurie Newman's China Sunrise- it looks amazing. Betty Boop has already enjoyed plenty of sucess anyway. I am all for the little guy getting a break, but Betty Boop is a star, and doesn't deserved to get bashed just because big business is unfair, sucks and doesn't always have the best of taste.
I do think nationality should be irrelevant in a selection process though. I also defend non-Americans, when they win commisions here, from Yanks complaining "it shoulda gone to an American"
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#24 of 44 posted
18 MAY 10 by
Unregistered Guest
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Actually though ,George, that is not "all" he said. He called Betty Boop "gaudy and completley inappropriate." Since Mr Newman claims "politics" aren't involved, then he is attacking the vivacious star of this page. Let us all remember we are on Betty's page and she does deserve a modicum of respect if not admiration. She is such a hard worker.
Peace and Blessings,
Tim
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#27 of 44 posted
18 MAY 10 by
Unregistered Guest
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Thats quite true, George, but I don't think you should feel obligated to assume the position of trying to whitewash the dreadful things Mr Newman said about poor Betty. Do you know her yourself? To grow her is to love her, and I'm sure you will, when you do. I know he's a skilled breeder, but does that justify his harsh remarks about this beloved STAR and AARS Winner? Even if Laurie Newman has denied any "political" considerations, I just can't help but feel he's being so cruel about Ms Boop just because she and her creator are Americans. I would never object and lobby for an American breeder if New Zealander Sam McCredy lV decided to rename Aotearoa something like: American Revolution Celebration Rose. I'd feel that the US celebration would have scored! I certainly wasn't offended that we used French Breeder Meilland for Miss All American Beauty instead of somebody from Jackson & Perkins like Eugene Boerner, although I certainly preferred the name Maria Callas for the sake of beauty.
Meanwhile let us try to be kinder to Betty Boop and Tom for all the joy they have provided the whole world, especially while visiting Betty's own page!!
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#29 of 44 posted
18 MAY 10 by
Unregistered Guest
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I think 30 posts is more than adequate for any one discussion. Would HMF Admin please close it?
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Margaret,
What are you afraid of? No one is shooting anybody. I admire Mr Newman's skill as a breeder, in fact I would purchase that beautiful apricot/ orange rose of his, CHINA EVENING, if I could, but that does not mean I will desert Poor Betty in the alley whilst she is being unfairly attacked.
I am a very loyal friend. Why do you find it necessary to be babysat by the hmf authorities, when we are merely expressing our opinions. Isn't traffic to the hmf site a good thing?
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now THAT is understandable. But just delete your email without checking hmf comments.
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#35 of 44 posted
18 MAY 10 by
RoseBlush
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timdufelmeier......
"Isn't traffic to the hmf site a good thing?"
Yes, it is .... especially if you are a supporting member.
With Regards,
Lyn
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See, Margaret and Lyn, inane hmf arguments can be productive, I just joined. I actually have tried a couple times before but that d*** paypal thing wouldn't work.
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#39 of 44 posted
18 MAY 10 by
RoseBlush
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Welcome to HMF ! and thank you for the support.
Lyn
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To Tom, Laurie Newman is held in high esteem by many of his peers and rosarians in our part of world, if not in yours. So is Margaret. Tom Carruth is no doubt a highly regarded breeder. But there is no lack of excellent Ausbred roses for this great occasion. It is the opinion shared and felt by many of us.
High traffic on HMF is good but it really depends on what kind of traffic.
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This discussion happened over 11 years ago and is not worth re-opening.
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Then George is it safe to assume you are a friend of Betty?
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Which is your favorite? I am stuck in a 2 way tie between Della Reese and Strainless Steel.
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#36 of 44 posted
18 MAY 10 by
Unregistered Guest
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Stainless Steel is perfection and I gave mine away to a dying friend whose gardener killed it anyway. Now I can't find it and I am going into withdrawls. It has been replaced with Neptune at most nurseries in LA. Once I went to a nursery that said SS was in and it was that damn Neptune with a SS label. I recently saw SWEETNESS, that J&P lavender Rose of the Year, and I was not too impressed. Lots of clusters. Hard to judge in a 5 gallon pot though.
Ebb Tide is too freaky for words. I brought a candelabra of about 6 blooms to my office and my co-workers griped "Why did you bring that artificial flower when you have so many pretty real roses in your garden." I just gave my EBB TIDE to my next door neighbor (who I intentionally got addicted to roses) because she was literally having a fit over it. She feeds and waters her flowers like a fiend (we use NO fungi or insecti cides) and now ET is covered with candelabra clusters like a SEXY REXY. That Wild Blue Yonder is MUCH prettier than I realized too. Is SS popular in Oz, it came an went fast here and nobody I know has or wants it. Roses are "out" right now in the US.
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Initial post
4 DEC 11 by
Don H
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Another rose by this name has been introduced by Fryer, see their catalogue (2011)
www.fryers-roses.co.uk/images/Fryers-Roses-2011-Catalogue.pdf
Makes you wonder what good it is having an international naming registration process.
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#1 of 10 posted
4 DEC 11 by
jedmar
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Thank you! It seems that less and less breeders are registering with the ARS.
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The breeder of this rose together with two others has, not registered any of his roses in Australia, despite my personally approaching him and his being provided with the wherwithall to register. ARS has no knowledge of them. If breeders are choosing not to register their roses (what evidence is there?) it is hardly fair to point the finger at ARS. Unfortunately this breeder is very recently deceased, so the question of registration is now moot. The opportunity to become a part of Australia's rich heritage of rose breeding was offered.
For the record, Australia has a National Registrar and ARS is regularly supplied with details of roses bred here as distinct from every other member nation of WFRS. If the breeders refuse to register their roses, and member nations of WFRS will not establish national registrars, it is hardly the fault of ARS, who are doing their best under very difficult circumstances. ARS doesn't deserve the slings and arrows of those who obviously know little about their circumstances, and who may in fact be a little envious of the good works of American Rose Society as it performs its function with a considerable degree of accuracy and certainty.
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When the big breeders re-use rose names, it's hard for minor breeders to take the process seriously. We've seen an example recently of what looked like a code-name being changed when a rose was distributed by a large company.
Registering a rose without patenting it may not seem worthwhile, but the cost of getting adequate protection of breeders' rights may be prohibitive for amateurs.
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Dear Laurie,
Can you advise us on the use of the code name 'MELzules' used for Trevor Grant's 'Let's Celebrate' (see 2015 reference). I believe this code is incorrect and that TRG2 is the correct code name.
Thanks,
Patricia
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#5 of 10 posted
25 APR 17 by
Plazbo
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No offense intended but
"The opportunity to become a part of Australia's rich heritage of rose breeding was offered. "
Seems very arrogant/self important. The breeders rose is still offered and he still has a part in "Australia's rich heritage of rose breeding" without registering. To diminish his role because he refused to drink the kool-aid says more about the organisation than the breeders.
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It is also interesting to keep an eye on the recent registrations here: http://www.stsrv.com/irar/newregis.asp . In all the years I have been watching this list, I have never seen a Meilland, or a Kordes, etc, name appear on the list. Why is that, I wonder? I also think the credibility of the registration process is called into question when some breeders choose to register ridiculously large numbers of roses... to be part of the rich tapestry of rose breeding culture in Australia, maybe???
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#7 of 10 posted
26 APR 17 by
jedmar
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Yes, the ARS/ICRA registrations are in the overwhelming majority from the Anglosaxon world, with a sprinkling of Asian and a few amateur European breeders. Representatives of the major European Rose breeding companies mention will have the answer, but I am guessing that the ICRA Registration does not give the commercial protection a patent application gives and is therefore of less value if you are in business on an international scale. For amateur breeders it is probably still less expensive than the patent process. Finally, for US breeders it is still a valid local association, maybe due to requirements of the show culture? Rose Shows with prizes are long gone in Continental Europe.
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Hi Jedmar, the registration process and the patenting process are two mutually exclusive processes. The registration process is free and coordinated by the International Society for Horticultural Sciences (through the ARS) in an effort to catalogue and document the creation, identity and origin of new plants varieties. The plant patenting process is (here in Australia) a national government run incentive to provide breeders with some form of protection and access to a period of guaranteed income exclusivity. It is indeed an expensive process. A rose does not have to be registered in any way with any horticultural society to be eligible for a patent. This is an important distinction to be made for up-and-coming rose breeders who often mistakenly assume registration automatically provides protection of their intellectual property.
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#10 of 10 posted
28 APR 17 by
Plazbo
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Correct, the patent (aka PBR in Aus) will set a person back a few thousand. An alternative may be to trademark (only a couple hundred) the name....sure it won't stop anyone propogating the rose but they'd need to do it under an entirely different name to sell it which maybe more hassle than it's worth because it'll be a year or two behind marketting.
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Brindabella BLaze was bred by John C Gray of Queensland. Verify this with the National Rose Trial Garden results which have been updated since I reported their error 6 months ago.
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Thank you. Can you also supply a date bred ?
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Brindabella Blaze bred in 2004
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Was it a sport? If so, Mr. Gray would probably need to be listed as a discoverer, instead of a breeder.
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#4 of 12 posted
14 JAN 11 by
Unregistered Guest
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Anyone know the parentage of this rose?
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George, I gather John Gray might be Koolami (see initial post). Have you tried sending him a private message to alert him to this thread, On the other hand, I know he is from Toowoomba in Queensland and might have a little water on his plate at the moment.
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#7 of 12 posted
15 JAN 11 by
Unregistered Guest
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"Initial post 26 OCT 09 by koolami
Brindabella Blaze is a sport discovered by John C Gray at Brindabella Country Gardens, Toowoomba Queensland and not bred by Chris Warner as incorrectly reported by the Australian National Rose Trial Committee and presumably picked up by HelpMeFind from that source. This can be verified by the Committee and an errata to this effect is currenlty being circulated in the various State Rose Journals "
see:http://www.helpmefind.com/gardening/l.php?l=99.298145&tab=32&qn=3&qc=0
Should be listed as discovered by as mentioned above.
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Thanks Simon. Fixed. John Gray is now the discoverer.
But the parentage is still unknown, although it was said to be a sport of Brindabella 4352 (whatever that is).
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Maybe we can contact Laurie Newman about it, Patricia? The rose has a registered name (GRAze) so that means it would have to have gone through Laurie as the Australian rep for ICRA-roses. On the registration form one needs to include the parents, if known, so Laurie could check and pass it on.
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I have indexed all the roses ever mentioned in the Australian Rose Annuals and if Laurie Newman had ever registered it, I would certainly have listed it. I have found no such registration for GRAze. As far as I can see it is a synonym dubbed by the discoverer.
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LOL! Really... oh dear...
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Hello Simon and Patricia. It is interesting. "Koolami" does seem to know a lot about this rose, except from which rose it sported. Perplexing for all of us, and yet possibly by design. It is likely that Patricia would have picked up the rose from NRSA Rose Annuals were it registered, but too many introducers have no interest in registering their roses for perpetuity, BTW, "4350" and "4352" are postcodes for Toowoomba and Highfields (Brindabella gardens territory) gratuitously appended as a suffix to pseudo breeders codenames may only be an attempt to infer some official status. Nothing of the sort, and you are right onto this little ploy Simon.
The facts are that Mr.Gray may not see it necessary to respect that Australia has a history of rose breeding that extends from 1880 until today. There is an Australian Rose Breeders Association that provides members with information about hybridisation and propagation, and is encouraging breeders to have their roses entered into trials conducted by National Rose Trial Garden of Australia located in Adelaide. Some people rather prefer to act independently and without regard to tradition, making outlandish claims as to the merits of their roses, and what buyers can expect.
Simon clearly shows that grandiose claims of Blackspot free roses just may not be entirely effective in that regard. It should be common knowledge that Blackspot is endemic in all Modern Roses, thanks to Gallicas being interbred with Chinas in early 19th Century, and from the Bourbons through to Hybrid Perpetuals, Hybrid Teas, and on through Floribundas. Miniatures, up to the present time. Blackspot can be controlled with careful use of Fungicides, especially Triforine. As clearly expressed by a panel of leading breeders including Thomas Proll (Kordes, Germany), Alain Meilland (Meillands, France), and Colin Horner (UK) last October at WFRS Convention, Johannesburg, there are no roses that are blackspot free. Some may be more resistant to it than others, and Australian rose breeders are hard at work producing roses with the intention of providing even greater resistance to Blackspot.
ARBA is an organisation that fosters exchange of information amongst its breeders with the intention of advancing the campaign to create roses that show greater resistance to this unsightly fungus.
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I am a proud Australian. My profile illustrates that I am also a keen rosarian. Since visiting Mornington Botanical Rose Garden yesterday, it came again to me the sad conclusion that our "Cultural Cringe" is alive and well. I spotted two beds of Rosa 'Dame Elisabeth Murdoch', enclosed in two bays dedicated to and sponsored by that illustrious Australian lady. In view of her reputation and the great esteem with which she is held in Australia, I wondered just who chose this particular rose that was given the honour of her name. Be that as it may, it is an unremarkable rose bred in Germany, Rosa 'Speelwark', and to it second hand is given the name of a great Australian lady. The question needs to be asked as to why not an Australian bred rose? It is my opinion that that would be a much more appropriate option.
But then, "they" have been recklessly indifferent to recognising Australian bred roses since Alister Clark's roses were exported to America 80 years ago, resulting in the creation there of the "mystery virus" from Australia because of which we are still prohibited from exporting roses to USA. Recently the wheel has turned full circle, and we now don't accept roses directly from America. How in the past we have escaped "Witches Broom" and other "nasties" they have over there I don't know, and I expect that we can be very thankful for the protection of quarantine protocols.
During that period of time, it has been the practice of several Australian rose distributors from time to time, to bypass Australian roses and give a new name to an introduced rose, no doubt for commercial advantage. I will not name names. It is a historical fact, and it has happened with Rosa 'Speelwark'. Why is not an Australian bred rose chosen? Australian bred roses have been named for early explorers, and various religious centres of learning, but very few living Australians or significant national occasions. The centenary of Australian Federation was such an occasion, and rather than adopt an Australian rose for that celebration, "they" chose a rose with the name of a crazy cartoon-strip character, "Betty Boop"!!! In its gaudiness it may be attractive to many, but where is the innate Australian character befitting such an occasion? Australian roses were suggested, a very appropriate rose amongst them, but they were overlooked. Why? I am completely unaware how this rose was marketed with the new name Rosa 'Centenary of Federation'.
And now I see Rosa 'Rebell' has been renamed Rosa 'Australian Centenary of Federation'. Bred by Kordes of Germany in 2006, the connection with our federation, and how we got and why we need a second token of recognition of that occasion escapes me.
Australian bred roses are very good indeed, and compare favourably with those selected from overseas stock. In competition with roses submitted from overseas, Australian bred roses have performed very well at the Australian Rose Trial Garden in Adelaide for many years. A problem exists whereby growers and distributers in Australia dedicate their annual production to roses from their overseas principals in order to maintain the agency, to the almost total denial that Australian bred roses exist.
One brave Australian distributor is the exception, but it requires that the large rose interests and the general public seriously look at the quality roses available at home, and that are not generally made available to the general public.
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Thanks for this info. I had wrongly assumed this rose was Australian-bred when I bought it.
After reading your post, I intend to buy some Aussie roses this winter and see how they perform in NW Vic, where we have very hot, dry summers and cold, (sometimes) wet winters.
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Laurie, the "new" RSL rose is another that has been around OS under another name for a while. I saw it under artificial light and am still shuddering, but tastes in roses vary.
It's not a matter of roses being "chosen"; it's just marketing by the importer.
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I believe that the organization which registers new roses in the USA, would that be the ARS?, will not register any rose named after a living person without written permission from that person.
Does whatever agency or organization which registers roses in Australia have a similar requirement? Maybe you need a letterwriting and emailing campaign to encourage well-known Australians to request that their names be attached only to the productions of other Australians. The persons being honored might not realize that their own countrymen and women are being neglected.
I will say that I am extremely happy so far with the Australian rose, 'Titian', which, among other virtues, is so far almost entirely cane hardy in zone 5, NA, and very resistant to Black Spot.
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Thank you Nastarana. The organisation representing International Registrar of New Rose Names is indeed managed by two co-directors engaged by American Rose Society. In Australia, we have a Registrar of New Rose Names acting as an agent for that body, and who happens to be myself. In all cases where a living person has a rose named for them it is mandatory that written permission be obtained before registration can proceed.
I thank you for your suggestion that I canvas prominent Australians that they may want to draw more attention to themselves, but have a sneaky suspicion that this is not the case.
Australian Rose Breeders Association represents some Australian rose breeders and makes it its business to remind major growers that our members and others in Australia do breed good roses, but we are rarely if ever approached, and must go cap in hand to seek assistance to have Australian roses grown and marketed. At least one Australian breeder and an ARBA member has given up on Australian growers, and is exporting his roses to Europe to obtain an outlet for his product.
Yes, I can agree that 'Titian' is a worthwhile large shrub to grace your garden. Thanks for your input.
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