HELPMEFIND PLANTS COMMERCIAL NON-COMMERCIAL RESOURCES EVENTS PEOPLE RATINGS
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Initial post
22 OCT 17 by
NikosR
Is Albertine self cleaning or does it hold on its wasted blooms for the rest of the year? This is important to know for rampant ramblers like this if one does not feel deadheading a large rambler under the heat is an enjoyable passtime.
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The 2011 reference says: " Later the bloom dies most ungracefully and hangs on to its dead petals. Not in a spreading way, but losing all oomph in the petal and just collapsing to hang like a wet dishcloth in the middle of the pretty cluster."
Nevertheless, I would not be without it.
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#6 of 11 posted
24 OCT 17 by
Jay-Jay
On this part (Albertine is a triploid and sets no hips) of what You wrote in that article, I have to respectfully disagree as for setting hips... for it sets quite a few hips. See attached photo's I made today. Sorry for the less sharp photo's, for the light-conditions were bad and I didn't have a steady stand and or hand.
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That is so interesting Jay-Jay. You certainly have many hips there. I've double checked where that information came from and it was G. D. Rowley, writing in the 1960 American Rose Annual, page 110 on Triploid Garden Roses. Among the other Wichuraiana roses he mentioned in the article were 'American Pillar', Dr. W. van Fleet', 'New Dawn', 'Albertine' and 'Emily Gray'.
I actually do have a photo of a miserable hip or two on 'American Pillar' and will add that to its file. Perhaps it may be that a hip may not signify fertility? But I will be watching my 'Albertine' for hips this year. Patricia
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#8 of 11 posted
24 OCT 17 by
Jay-Jay
Maybe it needs our weather? On the other hand, this year was exceptionally sunny and dry over here. I'll harvest the hips and sow some seeds.
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#10 of 11 posted
26 OCT 17 by
NikosR
Being triploid discourages seed fertility, not necessarily hip setting. Hip setting is very much affected by the existence of well developed reproductive organs on the flower.
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#2 of 11 posted
23 OCT 17 by
Jay-Jay
The dead flowers hang for a while, but after a while, when the hips swell, the petals disappear. But maybe that was due to a lot of rain and wind. Will observe this next year.
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If you blast the bush with a leaf blower it will remove a lot of the dead flowers. This also works quite well for Camellias.
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Interesting thought. Someone advised me to deadhead a "ground-cover" rose with a golf-club.
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#5 of 11 posted
24 OCT 17 by
Jay-Jay
I can frequently be seen beating my monstrous Christine Helene with a long stick. I don't know what the neighbours think, and I don't actually care - by this I get rid of all the wilted petals without deadheading. And Christine Helene has hundreds of blooms. While hips form on the beaten part, she makes new trusses on new canes. So that's my low-tech recommendation, beat it with a stick. Love the golf club tip as well.
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I would have never thought about this tip (and the leaf blower) as a way to deal with dead flower petals as an alternative to deadheading a massive prickly shrub. I've avoided getting some of the larger gorgeous roses, because of the deadheading task, so Thank you!
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I can't decide which rose name makes me giggle more: Beach Blanket or Tipsy Imperial Concubine
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Rose named 'Happy Butt' will always make me giggle.
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Summer Song is a really special rose in a rare colour. That said, I really hate these secretive "seedling x seedling" statements. Mr Austin did not invent roses, he built upon the works of others, who themselves have been building upon the works of others for generations. Nobody can make me believe Mr Austin got Summer Song as a chance seedling with unknown parentage. By not disclosing the parentage, he wants to prevent others from going down the same road in hybridising. Of course it's not only an Austin phenomenon, and part of my argument is vain because I can use Summer Song itself in hybridising, but I still find this kind of non-disclosure irritating to say the least.
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It would be fun to guess the parentage. I grow two own-root Pat Austin with shiny & glossy foliage, and I can see some Pat Austin in pictures of Summer Song's leaves. Pat is a water-hog and can't take full-sun & best in 4 hours of morning sun. Pat Austin has a mango scent (like Summer Song). Another rose that might be in Summer Song's parentage is Geranium Red (amazing scent & many petals, but wimpy). The glossy-foliage like Summer Song and Pat Austin need alkaline minerals & shade and constant wetness more than others, in my experience of growing 110+ OWN-ROOT roses.
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#3 of 3 posted
17 DEC 23 by
jmile
I got my first Summer Song this year. We get very hot in the Summer in Zone 9B so I put it where it only got sun half day. It grew very listlessly. It produced some flowers but not much----so I moved it into full sun and heat----It loved it. It perked up and sent out new growth. I didn't water it a lot either---- it was adapt or die and it chose to adapt and it is looking a lot better. I am hoping that next year will be even a better year in full sun and hot weather. I got two more young plants this Fall so I will experiment. Maybe graft it onto Fortuniana to see how that goes.
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The habit of not disclosing parentage is particularly annoying for us who garden in difficult climates because it prevents us from studying lineages to help us determine whether a cultivar can thrive in our climate and soil conditions. It does help a little to know in which of his five categories Austin places his roses, but even that information is not always or often included in nursery descriptions.
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New Dawn has been a success story for me. Planted in a corner where she doesn't get much sun (well, nothing in my garden gets much sun!), she had to climb up the garage which she achieved in her first year. Once up, she now spreads vertically on top of the wall and the garage roof. There is a huge hazel tree growing in the park next to the garage, and in the autumn the garage roof gets sprayed with both hazel nut clusters and leaves. When I don't sweep them off meticulously, they decompose quickly into some sort of topsoil, allowing both grass to grow and - more importantly - New Dawn's branches to form roots. In spring, when pruning, I climb onto the garage, pull at New Dawn's branches, see where the roots have formed, cut the branch off and plant it into a pot. The loose nature of the "topsoil" makes removing the rooted branches super easy. This way, I have been multiplying my New Dawn without any effort on my part, and clones of her are now growing relatively happily as part of a (future) rose hedge in my Eifel orchard - I say relatively happy because they are constantly threatened by voles, deer and harsh conditions. But they do establish themselves where lots of other roses fail. If you want a robust and beautiful rose, have the space but not the time (with New Dawn, I only prune what's in the way and never dead-head) AND don't mind the vicious thorniness then New Dawn is for you. PS: Veilchenblau which spreads on the same garage roof never forms roots.
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'New Dawn' is a great rose and a real survivor. Driving around town today, I noticed a big old bush of 'New Dawn' sort of abandoned at one end of a fence line. It was vigorous and flowering beautifully.
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