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petera 
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Initial post
4 NOV 23 by
petera
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The rose I have as "Port Arthur" can't be Lady Waterlow if the plant as Mottisfont is correct. I photographed that plant at Mottisfont 18 May 2023; it is stunning and I dearly wish I did have it. If the original found plant was really LW then it must have been switched at some stage in the chain by which it came to me. My plant came from John Nieuwesteeg with budwood, I believe, sourced from the HRIA collection at Ruston's.
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I see that Lady Waterlow doesn't have any descendants listed, as seed parent. Which doesn't mean it didn't have any, of course.
There are hip photos on the "Pt Arthur" file. I didn't try planting seeds.
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The hips wither before they fully develop and I couldn't find anything like fertile seeds.
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The plant in my previous garden didn't have persisting hips either
I note that three suggested IDs (Captain Christy, Georg Arends, Baroness Rothschild) each have at least one offspring listed, as seed parent.
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Reply
#2 of 2 posted
15 MAR by
petera
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I have grown Georg Arends and Baroness Rothschild in the past and, provided my plants were correctly named, Shalice is neither. I have never grown Capitaine Christy so can only compare it to the pictures on HMF. CC has longish pedicels while on S they are very short and consequently the inflorescences are short and crowded like those of many HPs. Many pictures show CC flowers drooping, S flowers are on rigid stems and cannot droop. S has very large, extravagantly foliose sepals while those of CC are almost simple, with sometimes a couple of little outgrowths (I don't know a name) on the margins. Some of the pictures of full-on flowers of CC look incredibly like S (see those from Georges Francis March 09) but if you look at a side view the flowers are totally different.
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Definitely not thornless and the leaves don't look very HP unless the plant is from late in the era when some were as much china as damask. The flowers look HP but to my nose they have a very strong lemon scent which suggests china or other influence. I have never known a citrus-scented HP.
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PhotoDiscussion id : 170-009
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With all the yellow and coral shading this doesn't look like an HP.
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