HelpMeFind Roses, Clematis and Peonies
Roses, Clematis and Peonies
and everything gardening related.
most recent 1 JUL HIDE POSTS
Initial post 1 JUL by Ozoldroser
This is a question directed to HRIA facebook page and I have checked out all details on HMF page:
Hi I'm in nz I have a friend writing a book on Harrison Weir, as I am in the rose society he has asked if I can find out more about the rose named after him released in 1878. Are there any know descendant roses from this rose etc? I can't find any in the uk the Breeder release 14 roses but none from Harrison Weir. As it was also released in Aust I wondered if anyone would have any info ? Many thanks Alannah
most recent 22 FEB HIDE POSTS
Initial post 22 FEB by Patricia Routley
Pat - is this your foundling from Mr. Heath? Or is it from David Ruston’s original plant?
Reply #1 of 4 posted 22 FEB by Ozoldroser
Hi Patricia.
I have Pechtold's Flame written with question marks on the planting plan of Mr Heath's roses. Too hot today but tomorrow I will visit this garden again. No unfortunately I did not get the cuttings from David's plant which was:
Pechtold's Flame (Rare) 9 91,92 House Garden : Lawn Walk : South Side: Row 09 : Row 3 (H. Verschuren-Pechtold, 1953) HT Red
So that tells us that it would be gone now.
Reply #2 of 4 posted 22 FEB by Patricia Routley
So your 2015 photographed rose came from Mr. Heath? Is the provenance then
Mr. Heath-> David Ruston-> Pat Toolan. or
Mr Heath-> Pat Toolan.
You have “ Budwood sourced from Ruston Roses” on your photos.
Reply #3 of 4 posted 22 FEB by Ozoldroser
Patricia I just searched out the photos which are on helpmefind in my Pictures folder for 25.1.2015 and I noticed the pot in one of them and on checking the pot the tag it says Pechtold's Flame. So if I wrote back then in 2015 the budwood was sourced from Ruston Roses then it was and Arhur Christou must have budded them for us. Forget Mr Heath for now as I may have thought that one of his roses might have been the same.
Reply #4 of 4 posted 22 FEB by Patricia Routley
I have no doubt that David Ruston knew this rose well. He grew (see 1959-106 ref) and exhibited (see 1967 ref) 'Pechtold's Flame'.

As an aside, 'Tzigane' has a yellow reverse. Your photos of 'Pechtold's Flame' appears to have yellow only in the depths.
most recent 24 NOV HIDE POSTS
Initial post 22 NOV by Give me caffeine
I jus thought of something about this rose. It has a delicious scent. It flowers on and off for most of the year. It's short.

Why did I plant it in a low terracotta pot? It would be ideally suited for a raised bed, at least 60cm high. That way it would be conveniently sniffable.

My two bushes are still at a size where they are easy to move, so I will have to think of a new location for them.

I may also try propagating more of them. It really is a nice little thing with a lot going for it.
Reply #1 of 1 posted 24 NOV by Ozoldroser
I agree it would be good in a raised bed. I love it raspberry lifesavers scent.
most recent 2 JUL 23 SHOW ALL
Initial post 1 JUN 18 by Aussie rose lover
The Swiss gentle man Fellenburg as that is the correct sow spelling of his name and that of this rose was a Swiss of German extraction. This rose is a creation of his without any doubt.
Reply #1 of 11 posted 1 JUN 18 by Margaret Furness
Ah, you're the same as me - don't touch-type, and sometimes forget to check what has appeared on the screen when we've finished.
Reply #2 of 11 posted 1 JUN 18 by Patricia Routley
Aussie Rose Lover - you might like to look at the other comments for this rose.
Reply #3 of 11 posted 31 AUG 18 by Aussie rose lover
I stand by what I said earlier about Mr. Fellenburg . In German burg is never spelt with an e. It is always spelt burg which means hill or mountain Patricia. This mistake has bean around for along time and unless one has a linguistic or philogical background one doesn't appreciate the subtle nuances of any given language or its spelling. There are spellings of words which have crept into English here and in the us and Canada which though popular still make them silly or theoretically incorrect ie; The american use of dove instead of dived for the past tense of diving.
I once mentioned the spelling of Fellemburg to David Euston.He like me grew up in South Australia surrounded by people of German extraction. He accepted like me that the correct spelling for fellemburg is with the u and not eunles Herr Fellemburg was English which he certainly wasn't.
Reply #4 of 11 posted 1 SEP 18 by Ozoldroser
I wonder if the rose was named after:
There was a prune in the Riverland in the 1920s 'Fellemberg' according to TROVE
Reply #5 of 11 posted 1 SEP 18 by Andrew from Dolton
There are quite a few Germanic words spelt e-r-g, Battenberg for example. Burg = Castle, Berg = Mountain.
Reply #6 of 11 posted 1 SEP 18 by Patricia Routley
Aussie Rose Lover - I wonder if you wouldn't mind using the EDIT facility to correct the incorrect spellings in your postings.

There are 60 or so references to this rose dating back to 1836, all using the berg spelling. The only point of contention is that whether the name was spelt with an N or a M.
Reply #7 of 11 posted 1 SEP 18 by HubertG
In the digitised copies available online of the German periodical Rosenzeitung there are 22 references to Fellemberg, only one to Fellenberg and none at all to either Fellenburg or Fellemburg.
Reply #9 of 11 posted 1 JUL 23 by Carlos D Neves
Fellen means fallen in german, so family name would be 'descended from the mountains' , Fellem is hungarian for above myself and the family name would then mean 'above me the mountains, above the mountains'
Reply #10 of 11 posted 1 JUL 23 by jedmar
The German etymology is a bit far fetched. "Fallen" in German is "gefallen". "Fell" is fur, "Fellen" is "of furs". The name is known in for a Swiss patrician family since mid 16th century. Contemporaries of the rose were e.g.
Daniel von Fellenberg (1736-1801), politician and lawyer
Philipp Emanuel von Fellemberg (1771-1844), educator and agronomist
Wilhelm Tell von Fellenberg (1798-1880), farmer and entrepreneur
The second was shortly (ca. 1798/99) ambassador to France. A Fellenberg prune is still in commerce, also called Fellemberg. There is no indication that he ever bred roses.
The spelling "Fellemberg" is a typical French misspelling of German words. Philip Emanuel is mentioned in the Revue anglo-française of 1833 as ". M. de Fellemberg a placé dans son grand établissement d'agriculture d'Hofwil , près Berne" etc. P.E.F.'s educational work was well-known in France. He was in contact with Marie Louise of Austria, the second wife of Napoléon. There are mentions of his establishment in Hofwyl near Bern from 1805 onwards
Reply #11 of 11 posted 2 JUL 23 by jedmar
Additional research: According to Fellenberg family tradition, an ancestor immigrated from Tirol in Austria to the region Aargau, which was then Austrian land. The family name was spelled "von Vellenberg". Indeed there is a castle ruin Vellenberg near Innsbruck, Tirol. The family name "de Vellinberch" related to the castle is documented since the 1160s.
Reply #8 of 11 posted 2 SEP 18 by Nastarana
Like Professor Higgins said, we Americans haven't spoken English in years.
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