HELPMEFIND PLANTS COMMERCIAL NON-COMMERCIAL RESOURCES EVENTS PEOPLE RATINGS
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Questions, Answers and Comments by Category
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Initial post
18 AUG 20 by
Thymus
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Hi everybody!
I’m new to Help Me Find. I am not new to gardening but I don’t have much experience with roses. I’d very much appreciate it if more experienced gardeners could offer some advice and help me find answers to my questions.
I have an arbor that is 8 ft high x 5 ft deep x 4 ft wide. It is across a path going in East-West direction. The arbor gets about 3 hours of direct sun in the morning (from 9am to 12pm) and 3 in the afternoon (from 2pm to 5pm), i.e. 6 hours total of direct sunlight plus another hour of dappled dun throughout the day. The soil is decent there: original clay enriched with a lot of compost. I would love to grow the Awakening rose over the arbor, but I am not sure if it is a good choice. Do I have enough sunlight there? Are the arbor’s dimensions appropriate for this rose? Do I need 2 of them for each side? What other roses are suitable for this arbor? Is Everblooming Cl Cécile Brünner too big for this structure? How about 2 of Aloha on each side? I would like to have a rose that reblooms, has more than 5 petals, is hardy to USA agricultural zone 6b, does well with 6 hours of sun and is disease resistant. I’d be most grateful for advise and recommendations.
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I can't advise about roses in the US, but there's a question you need to ask yourself: does it matter how prickly the rose is? If it does, you could try a Kathleen Harrop each side.
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#2 of 16 posted
19 AUG 20 by
Thymus
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Thanks for the reply. I haven't given much thought to how prickly it is. Do special rose gloves protect enough or is it so prickly that is impossible to handle?
I'll take a look at Kathleen Harrop too. Thank you for the suggestion.
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Margaret would be thinking of walking through an arbour with the prickly canes of ‘Awakening’ at face / eye level.
I suspect ‘Cecile Brunner Climbing’ would grow too large.
Another one we would recommend in Australia would be ‘Marie Nabonnand’.
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#4 of 16 posted
19 AUG 20 by
Thymus
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Good point about thorns at face level. Thank you. I should’ve thought of that. Marie Nabonnand is, unfortunately, not hardy to my agricultural zone. I am in 6b and it’s listed as hardy to 7b. Thant’s 2 zones warmer than where I am.
I checked out ‘Kathleen Harrop’ too. It is very pretty at would look great on that arbor, but the concern with it is that it is mentioned on Help Me Find to be susceptible to mildew. We have a rather humid climate here on the North East USA. Some of my other plants in the garden do get mildew and blackspot sometimes. I don’t spray, I just try to pick plants that are less susceptible to these problems. So far (10+ years) this approach seems to work. I think it’s a good idea to look for disease resistant roses for my garden.
Actually, this is one of the reasons I decided against 'Zéphirine Drouhin’. It is a beautiful rose and is hardy to my 6b zone, but many gardeners say it gets Mildew and blackspot. ‘Kathleen Harrop’ is listed as a sport 'Zéphirine Drouhin’. I wonder if it’s more disease resistant than the parent or it’s just the same.
How big does Everblooming Cl Cécile Brünner get? Is 10ft tall x 6ft diameter gazebo enough for it? I came across different descriptions of this rose. Some gardeners say it's a house-eater, some mention that the "Everblooming" one is more compact. The one I am considering is from Heirloom Roses. It is sold as 1996 Rambling Rose that grows up to 11ft x 10ft. It may still be a bit too big for my arbor (can it be pruned to fit the size?), but hardly a house eater. No info on thorns.
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I am across the world from you, but I only hear good reports of these 2 roses, that appear to be suitable for your zone and location in the U.S.. they are..
Viking Queen and Darlow's Enigma... perhaps you might like to take a look at those and see what you think...
Alberic Barbier is a big rambler that repeats well into autumn, with simple deadheading.. might be another..
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#6 of 16 posted
19 AUG 20 by
Thymus
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Thank you! I'll check out the 3 that you mention right away. It's nice to have more choices.
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#7 of 16 posted
22 AUG 20 by
 Jay-Jay
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Maybe consider these roses as well: Zéphirine Drouhin thornless, repeat flowering and a good scent. Mme Alfred Carrière almost thornless, nice scent and repeats well.
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#8 of 16 posted
22 AUG 20 by
Thymus
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Interesting that you suggested Mme Alfred Carrière just as I was reading about it. So far I've determined that it's hardy to my zone 6b. Are you well familiar with this rose? Can you tell me more about it? Is it disease resistant? How big does it grow? How many should I need for my 8 ft high x 5 ft deep x 4 ft wide arbor?
Thank you for your help
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Mme Alfred gets big in zone 9b, I don't know about your area. It would be worth finding out if there's a heritage rose group in your area, and asking them what does well for them. Maybe look at things that aren't nominally climbers, too. Eg, how healthy would Reine des Violettes be in your climate. (One each side, scented, thornless.)
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#12 of 16 posted
23 AUG 20 by
Thymus
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#10 of 16 posted
23 AUG 20 by
Jay-Jay
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I replied yesterday and included a link to Paul Zimmermans' video about cladding an arbor in roses, but it seems, that HMF doesn't allow links in discussions.
I'll try again... No that's not possible. Try this search in Google: Paul Zimmerman arbor roses.
Than the video will pop-up.
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#11 of 16 posted
23 AUG 20 by
Thymus
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Thank you, Jay-Jay!
I know the video you are talking about and I have Paul Zimmerman's book too. I'm in the process of converting all this information that I have acquired into a practical project: selecting the right plant for the right climate (Z6b) and the supporting structure that I have 8x5x4 arbor). Part of the difficulty is that while I have experience with other plants I have not grown many roses. There are so many of them and they are all so beautiful and I want them all, but I'll have to narrow down my selection at some point and just choose 1-2 that really work.
Thanks again for all your help.
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#13 of 16 posted
25 AUG 20 by
Palustris
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I grow roses in NE zone 6 also; and have for thirty years. Over the years I have done considerable "rose rustling" and observing of what roses grow well in this environment. Sadly, over the last decade or so many of the real survivors have been replaced by 'Knockout' roses such that where once driving around there was a real variety of roses seen around houses, on trellises, and fences; they are now gone. However, one of the real survivors is 'Aloha'. It is not unusual to find a huge vase shaped shrub growing with no care at all, weeds crowding in the base, and flowers at almost any time in the summer.
So, I planted 'Aloha' up against a wall in a prominent location by the entrance to my house. It has proven to be a terrific rose with beautiful large pink flowers in profusion from June into July and occasional flushes during the summer and fall. Over time, given no pruning, it will make a huge shrub about 6' - 7' with arching canes. My own plant almost five years old has not shown a tendency to send out long 6' canes yet, but is still a huge shrub with the tendency to grow wide. I keep it in check through pruning and hope it will send out some long canes if we ever get any rain (.55" for the last two months.) I would only plant two 'Aloha' on your trellis: one on each side and it might take a while for them to meet at the top.
I have yet to see a huge 'Awakening'. My own plants have never grown larger than a medium sized shrub. 'New Dawn' from which it sported, is another true survivor. There are still some 'New Dawns' around despite the plague of 'Knockout' roses. This is a real climber capable of putting out 8' canes in a season. I would think that 2 plants would be plenty on your trellis and would grow into a nice display after a few years.
There are many ramblers that will grow beautifully on a large trellis like yours, but they are once blooming.
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#14 of 16 posted
25 AUG 20 by
Thymus
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Thank you so much for your detailed response, Palustris! It is particularly valuable since you garden in the same agricultural zone as I do and you have much more experience with roses than I have.
I was hoping that someone would share some insights about ‘Aloha’. I think this rose is absolutely stunning and I would be very happy if it grew in my garden. I agree that it is a whole lot more exquisite choice than the run-of-the-mill ‘Knockout’ roses.
Your input on ‘Awakening’ and ‘New Dawn’ is priceless! I like them both, but I get very different information on their growth habits based on where they are grown. Again, since you grow yours in z6 NE, USA, your experience is the most applicable to my situation.
What other roses are your favorites? If you feel like sharing your opinion on other roses that you grow (including the once blooming ramblers:) and what their growing patterns are in our climate — I’d very much appreciate it. Have you had any experience with some of the roses mentioned in this thread, like ‘Everblooming Cl Cécile Brünner’, ’Viking Queen’, ’Mme Alfred Carrière’ ?
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#15 of 16 posted
26 AUG 20 by
Palustris
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Well, I am probably not the best person to advise on reblooming large flowered climbers, since I have mostly focused on ramblers for the last couple of decades. Those LFC that I grow are almost all bred by Kordes since their commitment to reliable landscape plants suites my needs perfectly.
So, for Kordes repeat flowering climbers I have found reliable are 'Lavender Lassie', 'Amadeus', and 'Illusion.'
'Lavender Lassie' I found growing along a 6' tall split rail fence in my neighborhood. I was amazed at the clean foliage, the nice erect canes, and the beautiful old rose shaped pink flowers with a touch of lavender. As a Hybrid Musk it only grows to about 7', but is very reliable and free flowering.
'Amadeus', and 'Illusion' are different shades of red and, again, very reliable growers, with good foliage and excellent repeat bloom. I believe that 'Illusion' is classified as a shrub, but both these roses put out long canes with 'Amadeus' perhaps a little more of a climber with slightly longer canes.
'Compassion' by Harkness is a wonderful rose with beautiful flowers that seems to repeat continuously. For me it stays about 6' tall, unfortunately, since that could be too short for your trellis.
'Aloha' we have already discussed and still among the best repeat flowering roses.
When it comes to once flowering climbing roses, the choices are very broad from large shrubs, to pillar roses, to the wild growing ramblers. One reason I have so many ramblers is that they are "survivors." These are the roses that survive without any particular care and so it is still possible to find roses that have been in the same spot for 100 years. I have found them growing all over Cape Cod and New England. They propagate easily from cuttings or by layering.
These once blooming roses would require quite a bit of maintenance to keep them orderly on a trellis. My 'American Pillar' easily grows ten to twelve foot canes that are stiff and upright. So, for ramblers I can recommend 'Debutante' a very light pink; 'Ghislaine de Feligonde' a yellow/orange blend that might not be too large for your trellis; 'Maid Marion' a deep pink single that would probably be fine on your trellis; 'Rose-Marie Viaud' a mauve rose if placed on one side of the trellis can offer a contrast to, maybe, a pink rose or yellow rose on the other side; 'Tausendschon' a reliable rambler that doesn't get too large, but whose flowers are not the best; and 'Nokomis' which I really love for its pink flowers that offer a charming effect when the plant is seen at a distance.
I hope this helps a little. Send me a PM if you need a source for 'Debutante' or 'Maid Marion' or any of the other roses bred by Michael Walsh.
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#16 of 16 posted
26 AUG 20 by
Thymus
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Thank you very much, Palustris, for sharing your experience so generously. It does help a lot. I have been considering adding some Kordes roses to my garden. So, your feedback on them is quite timely. I’m glad you confirm that they have healthy looking foliage and pretty flowers. The info on 'Compassion' and once blooming ramblers is very useful too. And also thank you very much for your offer for Michael Walsh roses. I will definitely keep it in mind since I’m considering adding some healthy and vigorous ramblers to my garden in the next couple of years.
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Initial post
31 MAR 19 by
Storms
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Has anyone had any success with taking a ground cover rose that spreads to 5'-6' and training it up on a trellis upwards and horizontally? I am going to try this with "Sunrise Sunset". this summer which spreads great on the ground this year.
Any help with your experience on training ground cover roses to a trellis would be really appreciated!
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What's the current thinking on whether insects can transmit rose viruses? I bought a plant on impulse from a big-chain hardware about 10 years ago, and discovered that it was on a rootstock that rose nurseries had stopped using several decades ago. And eventually realised it was virused. Because the plant is thriving, I chose to ignore it. However, two cutting-grown roses next to it are showing virus.
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I was always taught that anything that could penetrate a plants cell has potential to transmit a virus, whether it was an animal however large or small or your secateurs. How close are they, is there a possibility their roots could have become grafted together?
https://www.rhs.org.uk/Search?query=virus%20transmission
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Thank you for the info and link.
I don't prune much. Perhaps it's the rosella parrots sucking sap from red new growth...
They're about 1.2m apart. I don't know whether R indica major would fuse roots with an Austin or a 1950s HT.
I have a nasty feeling I'll have to hoick all three, and start again - after the mass of buds on Apricot Nectar are finished.
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Margaret, you might like to check out the Mosaic Virus section in the GLOSSARY. I have added part of the 1983 reference, which is certainly not “current thinking”, but it may help in making a decision re hoiking.
(I have just noted there is more to be read under: Rose mosaic virus RMV)
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Thank you. I think 1983 is too old to gamble on; the next rose in line is Mrs A R Waddell.
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Can someone tell me please: how close to old Juglans regia (common / English / Persian / Circassian walnut) trees can roses safely be planted? Are roses more or less sensitive to juglone than apple trees are? How long does the ground stay poisoned with juglone after a walnut tree is removed?
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If all the leaves are raked-up well in autumn most plants and the lawn will grow reasonably well near a walnut tree. What can retard a plant's growth is the dense shade the leaves cast rather than any poison they contain.
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