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'Dorothy Perkins' rose Reviews & Comments
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I know the (likely copied-and-pasted) references say otherwise, but the fringed stipules on 'Dorothy Perkins' belie her Multiflora ancestry. There's clearly also Wichurana in there, but I think it's safe to say that 'Mme Gabriel Luizet' is not the daddy.
:-)
~Christopher
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Take a look at as many of the early Wich’s as you can Christopher. Most of them have fringed stipules.
Whilst it is well known that the matt-leaved multifloras are fringed, most authors don’t mention that the shiny-leaved wich’s are also fringed.
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#2 of 2 posted
14 JUN 20 by
 AquaEyes
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Yes, but that looks like a buzzcut, whereas the fringes on Multiflora look like eyelashes. 'Dorothy Perkins' seems to have longer fringes than I'd expect from just Wichurana. And if it had an HP or Bourbon for a daddy, wouldn't it be triploid?
Just wandered here because I was looking at a DP recently.
:-)
~Christopher
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Charles Quest-Rison. Climbing Roses of the World, p.135. "It is ironic that the most successful seedling of 'Turner's Crimson Rambler' should have been brought into this world with a false declaration of parentage. Jackson & Perkins described 'Dorothy Perkins' as a seedling or Rosa wichurana crossed by the pink Hybrid Perpetual ' Mme Gabrielle Luizet', but the similarity to 'Turner's Crimson Rambler' was noted immediately. There was lively correspondence in many horticultural journals (especially in France) which pointed out that crosses between R. wichurana and Hybrid Perpetuals had produced very different roses with much larger flowers and concluded that the similarity of 'Dorothy Perkins' to 'Turner's Crimson Rambler' was more than a coincidence... It is best to think of 'Dorothy Perkins' as the pink counterpart of 'Turner's Crimson Rambler'."
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I think Mr Quest-Ritson might be right. But it is interesting to note how the glandular pedicel, matt leaf and upright growth of 'Turner's Crimson Rambler' was subdued by R. Wichuraiana to produce a smooth pedicel*, glossy leaf and sarmentose growth in 'Dorothy Perkins'. Many thanks for adding this most interesting reference pkalisz.
(*i am sure 'Dorothy Perkins' has a smooth pedicel, but it is the wrong season for me to go and double check.)
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"Hairy" pedicels are a characteristic I use to rule out DP when trying to identify a small pink rambler.
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'Excelsa' is smooth as well. 'Turner's Crimson' has surprisingly small bristles but it is covered with them.
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Thanks to you both. I have added "smooth pedicels" to the main page for both 'Dorothy Perkins' and 'Excelsa'.
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And 'The Fairy' needs a shave.
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#6 of 14 posted
8 JUL 18 by
pkalisz
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I have two rambler roses that I propagated from bushes gowing at abandoned house sites here in central Kentucky. Both of these have bristles/glands on the pedicels (hard to see in the pictures). These roses are similar but differ in gross appearance, flower color and phenology. I always suspected that the second photo is DP. However, it is possible that both or neither is DP. They may also be wild DP hybrids. (I also posted the photos with my comment of 26 July 16)
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Neither looks like DP to me. The first is too dark a color to be DP and too pink to be 'Excelsa'. The second looks like the flower is too large but about the correct color. Both are very nice roses and once they are more mature might be easier to identify. A great find!
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It might be worth looking at "Hawthorndene tennis court south rambler"for the first one, but I can't see how pale the petal reverses are. See the comparison scan of leaves of DP and "Hawthorndene".
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Nope. Not the same My Jan 2009 comment for "Hawthorndene Tennis Court South Rambler" says it has smooth pedicels.
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The rose being grown in the U.K. as 'Dorothy Perkins'. The receptacles and pedicels are smooth.
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'Excelsa', the plant on the left is from a plant 10 years old whilst the one on the right was found in a long abandoned garden. Most flowers have white streaks in their petals, the receptacles and pedicels are smooth.
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The rose I am growing as 'Crimson Shower'. The receptacles and pedicels have bristles and flowers at least a week later than Perkins.
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A found rose with smooth receptacles and pedicles.
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All four together, 'Dorothy Perkins', 'Excelsa', 'Crimson Shower', foundling rose.
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Responding to Palustrus comment in a 'Debutante' photo thread:
"Several ways to ID the correct 'Dorothy Perkins' are
3. DP frequently sports back and forth with 'White Dorothy'."
I have plants of presumed to be 'Dorothy Perkins', collected from four different local sites in 1996. In 22 years, I have never seen these plants with anything other than its normal pink.
However, I do have one more foundling called "Curnow's Dorothy" (from a very different area) which does come whitish now and then. It is not very pretty and is planted so far out that it gets no water at all. In season, I might add photos of these various ramblers all with one bloom of 'American Pillar' for colour comparison.
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Including "Hawthorndene" might be worthwhile, too.
I collected "Curnow's Dorothy" because it looked striped, but it didn't stripe at Renmark. Now dead. If it isn't pretty, I don't think you need feel obliged to keep it: the Dorothy family are so unstable.
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I don't feel obliged to keep it. And I feel less obliged to go and mattock it out. After the Wich threads lately, It will provide much interest for me to observe this rose and I may even lug a bucket of water to it this coming summer.
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I have found this rose growing in numerous locations around Rock Island, TN, most often by roadsides and occasionally in old gardens. All the plants found had leaves with some mildew.
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I have found this rose growing all over NY and NE. It is frequently in some place man has abandoned and growing on its own in large patches, or climbing an old tree, or through a thicket. It doesn't always have mildew, but is no stranger to it. Air circulation helps. Sometimes you will find it sporting back and forth with 'White Dorothy'. One marker for DP to help distinguish it from other pink climbers is that the new shoots are frequently "bronze" colored.
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