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'Alupka' rose Reviews & Comments
Discussion id : 73-785
most recent 15 OCT 22 SHOW ALL
Initial post 28 AUG 13 by CybeRose
I'm not sure that 'Souv. de Alupka' is the same rose.
Michurin mentioned it in his observations from the summer of 1896:
"Tough. Major. Semi-double. Dark yellow."
Reply #1 of 10 posted 31 AUG 13 by Eric Timewell
Your views alway command respect. I wonder what your reasoning is on this point. The photo I posted of 'Aloupka' at the Vorontsovs' palace seems roughly to fit Michurin's description, allowing for the pallor of yellow roses before the intrusion of Rosa foetida. The other photo posted, taken by Etienne Bouret at l'Hay les Roses, seems obviously a different rose, neither semi-double nor yellow of any sort.
Reply #2 of 10 posted 31 AUG 13 by jedmar
I have added rough translations of references to 'Alupka' from two articles by Ms. Arbatskaja. It seems that the identity of this rose is still questionable.
Reply #3 of 10 posted 31 AUG 13 by Eric Timewell
I see: Mignonette d'Aloupka, Favorite d'Aloupka, Souvenir d'Aloupka, since von Hartwiss gave his roses names in French. Some would have been produced after 1834 and so do not appear in his handwritten catalogue. Any of them might have had their names shortened to Aloupka. Or perhaps there was a separate variety called simply Aloupka.
Is there any evidence that the yellow rose at the Vorontsovs' palace is identical to Maréchal Neil or not? You would think it was in principle an easy call to make. If it is NOT the same, which of the Aloupkas is it likely to be? Not such an easy call, I realize.
Below is a photo from Arbatskaya, "Old Roses on the South Coast of Crimea" of an Aloupka at Sangerhausen which is evidently neither of the roses whose photos are currently attached to the HMF entry. Its buds at least are red.
Reply #4 of 10 posted 4 SEP 13 by CybeRose
I wasn't "reasoning" on this. I found the reference and wanted to put it somewhere. I should copy more of Michurin's descriptions for comparison. E.g.,
Safrano: Hardy. Semi-double. Fragrant. Blooms profusely. Copper-yellow.
Reply #5 of 10 posted 4 SEP 13 by Eric Timewell
Yes, it's very helpful.
Reply #6 of 10 posted 2 SEP 14 by Krimrose
von Hartvis hat keine Züchtung, die einfach Alupka hieß. Die einfach "Alupka" taucht als eine Fundrose in Deutschland auf, um Jahrhundertwende. Ein reisender Deutscher hat sie von der Krim gebracht, dabei ist es nicht klar, ob der Fundort den Namen gegeben hat, oder ist es tatsächlich ein Teil des ursprünglichen Namens. Die Rose wird bei Jäger als "weiße Niel" beschrieben. In den russischen Katalogen von der Krim und aus Odessa aus der Zeit vor 1917 wird sie mal weiß, mal Kanariengelb beschrieben. Die Pflanze in SGH entspricht keiner der Beschreibungen. Die Pflanze in Alupka ist NICHT IDENTIFIZIERT. Es wäre zu voreilig sie als Alupka zu präsentieren. Die Variante aus SGH ist in der Vermehrung und wird demnächst von Frau Prof. Dr. Klimenko untersucht.
Reply #7 of 10 posted 2 SEP 14 by Eric Timewell
Thank you, Krimrose. It will be very interesting to hear what Professor Klimenko finds.
Reply #8 of 10 posted 3 SEP 14 by Krimrose
Dauert noch. Sie bekommt die Pflanze aus SGH jetzt im Herbst, vor dem nächsten Sommer ist nichts zu erwarten.
LG Victoria
Reply #9 of 10 posted 13 OCT 22 by jedmar
Hat sich in dieser Sache etwas ergeben?
Reply #10 of 10 posted 15 OCT 22 by Eric Timewell
I have heard or read nothing. One hopes feebly that the work of Prof Klimenko and others continues under the Russian takeover of Crimea.
Discussion id : 62-573
most recent 8 MAR 12 HIDE POSTS
Initial post 8 MAR 12 by CybeRose
Field-Marshal His Serene Highness Prince MS Vorontsov: Knight of the Russian Empire (2001)
Oksana Y. Zakharov
Russia's first breeder of roses Gartvis has presented Alupka bred specifically for her class. Two of them selected in 1829 - "Alupka" and "Countess Elizabeth Vorontsov" - entered the world directory.
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