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'President Wm. R. Smith' rose Reviews & Comments
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Initial post
31 MAR 18 by
 hebe
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I have two WRS, and both behave more like climbers than shrubs. They have three or four canes (one 3yo and one 2yo), and shoot up to 10' in no time. The blooms open here, unlike Maman Cochet's (humid and warm Sydney), and are stunning. Occasionally they brown and ball, as in Patricia Routley's photos, but not often enough to stop me growing this rose. The fragrance is strong for a Tea, sweet and spicy.
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#1 of 6 posted
1 APR 18 by
HubertG
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Hebe, may I ask from where you purchased your William R Smiths? I'm in Sydney too and would like to get this rose from the same nursery.
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#2 of 6 posted
1 APR 18 by
hebe
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Hi Hubert, I'm not going to be of much help as I got both of mine from Misty Downs, who no longer sell roses. One was called Amelia Anderson, and the other was called Dr Grill - apparently a common misnomer.
I have had roses from Ross Roses, and was pretty disappointed with what they sent me. They list Dr Grill - but who knows what it is?! I am getting some from Thomas for Roses this year, for the first time. I will gladly send you some cuttings from mine, if you would like, as I have to move one this winter anyway.
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#3 of 6 posted
1 APR 18 by
HubertG
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Hi Hebe, thanks. That's a pity that it was Mistydown's. Are your 'Dr Grill' and 'Amelia Anderson' exactly the same? I'm told most Dr Grills sold in Australia are apparently W R Smith, but my Dr Grill (lots of photos posted) just doesn't look the same as your rose or some of the other American W R Smith photos which look identical to your rose. Maybe some time have a look at the photos of my Dr Grill and please let me know if you think your W R Smith/Dr Grill looks the same.
I was hoping to get your W R Smith to compare to my Dr Grill in real life.
Does your rose set hips? Mine does. My Dr Grill fragrance isn't strong or sweet, more grassy/hay, so it doesn't sound like your scent.
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#4 of 6 posted
1 APR 18 by
HubertG
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I forgot to add that I'll gladly take you up on your kind offer of cuttings. Many thanks!!
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#5 of 6 posted
1 APR 18 by
hebe
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Hi Hubert, yes, my WRS and DR Grill look the same. I had a look at your photos, and they do look different. I dead head mine, so it hasn't had a chance to set hips.
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#6 of 6 posted
1 APR 18 by
HubertG
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Thanks, I just couldn't bring myself to think that they were the same either. I'm not sure if it is the real Dr Grill or not, but it just doesn't look like W R Smith/Amelia Anderson. Thanks for the prompt feedback!
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Checking first with other growers. I would like to add a Note to the 'William R. Smith' page to the effect that it sets no hips. I have never noted a hip on my bushes and nearly all of my blooms end up perfect for dried flower arrangements [!] I have added the Tea Roses. Old Roses For Warm Gardens reference which notes "no hip seen".
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No hips as such on mine at present. I'll keep watching the current batch of spent blooms.
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#3 of 5 posted
9 MAR 18 by
HubertG
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There is only one descendant of William R Smith listed here (and that was where WRS was used as the pollen parent). I haven't grown this rose, so I don't know if it produces hips or not from experience, but one would assume that if such an esteemed and beautiful rose were fertile, it would have been pounced on by the breeders at the time to be used to produce offspring. It was most probably infertile but I'm only speculating.
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And I'll betcha two bob to a pinch of salt that the long-gone descendant, 'Mrs. R. M. King' (Mme. Abel Chatenay x William R Smith) was, in fact, a self pollinated 'Mme. Abel Chatenay'. The only real reference, 1931, says "too much like Abel Chatenay". We will never know, of course, but it gives credence to your speculation that William R. Smith is sterile
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#5 of 5 posted
10 MAR 18 by
HubertG
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Patricia, I was thinking exactly the same thing when I posted that above.
I imagine W R Smith takes after its mother Maman Cochet in the fertility department.
Incidentally, I have a hip on my White Maman Cochet and I have never seen this before. I left it to develop but it has partially split so I'm expecting it to rot, but you can see developing seeds inside.
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I found this description for William R. Smith online from an American 1917 Ella V Baines (florist) catalogue.
"WM. R. SMITH — This Rose has several names,
such as Charles Dingee, Jeanette Heller,
Maiden's Blush, etc. Color delicate blush. It
has no superior as a garden Rose."
There are also other descriptions for 11 other roses including an interesting one for Helen Good (a sport of Maman Cochet).
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This rose should be considered for Earthkind trials. I hardly ever water it even in high temps here in South Texas, never spray, and this rose is extremely vigorous with no disease or insect problems. The roses are high centered cream/white sometimes with pink edges. They are on straight stems and look close to florist quality. I can remember looking up to this huge bush planted against a wall and seeing literally a hundred blooms. Because I have this rose I don't need any other light colored roses.
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