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'President Wm. R. Smith' rose Reviews & Comments
Discussion id : 172-776
most recent yesterday HIDE POSTS
 
Initial post 3 days ago by 12Ladybug
I was wondering if someone could provide me the name of a company in which i can purchase the William R, Smith Rose. I am the great-grand daughter of Richard Bagg the hybridizer.
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Reply #1 of 2 posted 3 days ago by jedmar
Have you tried the nurseries listed on the Buy From tab?
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Reply #2 of 2 posted yesterday by 12Ladybug
Yes i did contact them and i am on the waiting list. Thank you so much for your assistance.
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Discussion id : 170-464
most recent 25 JAN HIDE POSTS
 
Initial post 25 JAN by Jax
Brittie, Where did you get your William R. Smith from? Your photos on this site are gorgeous. I got a William R. Smith from ARE and it is Marie van Houtte I am sure. Sheila Burke
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Discussion id : 109-202
most recent 12 JUN 19 SHOW ALL
 
Initial post 11 MAR 18 by HubertG
From the Rosen-Zeitung, Sep 1913, pg 111

"The Best New Roses for the Years 1910, 1911 and 1912.
TEAS: Mad. G. Serrurier, Mrs. Harold Silberrad, Alice de Rothschild, Lady Hillingdon, Mrs. Foley Hobbs, Mrs. Herbert Stevens, Recuerdo de Antonio Peluffo, Alexander Hill Gray, Charles Dingee."

I've included this quote here because it indicates that William R Smith was imported into and was known in Germany as Charles Dingee. Presumably Sangerhausen's specimen called Charles Dingee (if it hasn't been mixed up) would be William R Smith.
I'm keen to see a mature plant of 'Charles Dingee' from Sangerhausen to compare it to other William R Smiths.
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Reply #1 of 5 posted 11 MAR 18 by Patricia Routley
Thank you HubertG. Reference added.
These following two references are of interest in that they quote different parentages - and years. Sorry, I haven't done any research on 'Charles Dingee' but am sure there will be more to be found.

1911, May 20 The Garden, p243
Charles Dingee... Tea, D. and Conard, 1910, (Hermosa x White Maman Cochet)

1911, Aug 19. The Garden, p404
William R. Smith Hybrid Tea, Smith, 1908, (Kaiserin Augusta Victoria x Maman Cochet)
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Reply #2 of 5 posted 23 MAR 18 by HubertG
Dingee's 1918 catalogue lists both Charles Dingee and William R. Smith, so they must be two separate roses.
They emphatically claimed that they were the originators of Charles Dingee (as Hermosa x White Maman Cochet) and promote it as the 'best bush rose in the world'. They also warn of others roses being passed off fraudulently as Charles Dingee.

Despite the confusion over the early distribution and naming of the original William R Smith, it looks very likely that Charles Dingee is a distinctly separate variety and that William R Smith has at some point been passed off as Charles Dingee, hence its existence as a synonym.


There's even a very good photo of "William R Smith" in this 1918 catalogue (besides photos of 'Charles Dingee")
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Reply #3 of 5 posted 23 MAR 18 by HubertG
"Charles Dingee" The Most Wonderful Bush Rose in the World (See the Colored Photographic Illustration on opposite page.)
The Charles Dingee Rose is the result of cross-breeding between Hermosa, that grand old hardy pink variety, and White Maman Cochet, perhaps the greatest of all white garden Roses - a superb parentage, which insures its offspring every point of excellence. With the hardy, vigorous constitution of a Hybrid Perpetual, growing to perfection in almost any soil or situation, it has the most magnificent foliage, absolutely free from disease, that we have ever seen in any Rose.
It is a tremendous grower, the best in our entire list of over 800 varieties. If you have a place where other Roses have failed in that spot, Charles Dingee will flourish and will produce its gorgeous flowers with wonderful profusion. We have had it growing and blooming in all its glory in a temperature very little above freezing. Growing to a height of 2 to 3 feet, Charles Dingee blooms continuously, producing immense, deep, double, grandly formed flowers on long, stiff, erect stems; both in bud and bloom their beauty is nothing short of superb, practically impossible to describe because of the delicate blending of colors - rose tints in the center of flower, gradually shading off into pale blush creamy white, a color effect both entirely new and distinct.
CAUTION We are the originators and sole owners of the Charles Dingee Rose. Imitations and so called duplicates of it are intended to deceive.


From the "Dingee Guide to Rose Culture", 1918, page 3.

Very interesting that it is only 2-3 feet high.
Do you think that HMF should have separate entries for 'Charles Dingee' and 'William R. Smith'?
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Reply #4 of 5 posted 23 MAR 18 by Patricia Routley
Thanks HubertG. I've added the 1918 references.
I don't think we should have separate entries at the moment. Perhaps others in the future will come up with more evidence to prove they were separate roses.
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Reply #5 of 5 posted 12 JUN 19 by HubertG
I found the 1938 catalogue of P. Bernaix (Les Incomparable Roses Lyonnaise) online. They list 30 choice tea roses including both 'Charles Dingee' and 'W.R. Smith'. I thought it to be interesting since at this date one would expect the only teas to have survived commercially were ones that had proved themselves, and it is hard to imagine that if these two roses were in fact the same that Bernaix would not have worked that out. Dingee & Conard listed both roses for many years as well. Bernaix gives them different descriptions:

"Charles Dingée (Dingée & Conard, 1911). Fl. tr. gr., pl., col. rose."

"W.R. Smith (Smith, 1908). Fl. gr., pl., belle forme, col. blanc crème lavé rose."

I translate this as 'Flower very large, double, colour pink' for Charles Dingee, and for W.R. Smith, 'Flower large, pretty shape, colour cream white washed pink'.
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Discussion id : 92-365
most recent 27 MAY 19 SHOW ALL
 
Initial post 24 APR 16 by MelissaPej
I'm not sure what's going on, but I tried searching for this rose on HMF using "William R. Smith" (minus the quotes) and got a message saying the rose didn't exist. Is there a glitch or am I just missing a typo I made?
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Reply #1 of 7 posted 25 APR 16 by Patricia Routley
Yes,I think there is something odd.
William R Smith gets me straight there.
William R. Smith does not get me there.
The difference is one little full stop.
Admin?
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Reply #2 of 7 posted 26 APR 16 by MelissaPej
Thanks!
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Reply #3 of 7 posted 26 MAY 19 by mmanners
Yes this is still happening (May, 2019). (Patricia?) -- "William R. Smith" (with the full stop) is said not to exist. you have to make it William R Smith to get here.
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Reply #4 of 7 posted 26 MAY 19 by Patricia Routley
I can’t help any more with this one Malcolm. Only Admin can.
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Reply #5 of 7 posted 26 MAY 19 by mmanners
Sorry, thought you were "Admin." Who is that? thanks.
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Reply #6 of 7 posted 27 MAY 19 by Patricia Routley
Admin is short for a very small team of Administrators who keep this community-funded website running smoothly. They are assisted by an equally small team of volunteers, of whom I am one, who assist in any way they can on the roses, but any assistance at all is appreciated - and needed. For all of us, it is a labour of love. I am sure Admin will be in touch on that Smith fellow.
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Reply #7 of 7 posted 27 MAY 19 by jedmar
'William R. Smith' works again. Sometimes it is a just a broken link, probably during a merge/deletion of a synonym which ttok place 11 years ago. Adding the name anew and deleting the old one usually works.
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