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"Francis Dubreuil - in commerce as” rose Reviews & Comments
Discussion id : 140-786
most recent 9 JUL SHOW ALL
 
Initial post 3 MAY by Hamanasu
I grew this rose (provenance: Beales) for a season but the mildew was so appalling I quickly disposed of it (oh, the regret... I don't think it's available in Britain any more). Recently, I was in Gardone Riviera (Italy) and spotted a single, neglected but perfectly glorious bush of what I believe to have been this rose. It was growing in a small terrace-like strip of green next to a public bench between two roads running parallel, but on different levels. The scent was divine -- sweeter than Crimson Glory (which I got to smell several times on my trip, as I found a few plants of it locally). I was struck by the small fairly glaucous foliage of 'FD -- in commerce as'. This seems a pretty distinctive feature of this rose, visible in several of the pictures here on HMF, but you can't always trust cameras... Would anyone growing 'FD -- in commerce as' describe its foliage as on the glaucous side of green?
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Reply #1 of 6 posted 8 JUL by Lee H.
I grow ‘Francis Dubreuil, in commerce as’, at least the version available in the US. It is one of my favorites. I don’t think I would describe the foliage as either noticeably smaller or more glaucous than average, but to satisfy my curiosity, I compared mature terminal leaflets of F.D. (In center) with other well-known cultivars. I would say it is one of the darkest, but not necessarily bluer. Picture taken in full morning sunlight. Take a look.
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Reply #2 of 6 posted 8 JUL by Hamanasu
Thank you for such a wonderfully useful response! This makes me wonder what the sweet-scented rose I saw in Italy actually was. As soon as I saw it, FD came to mind, but I grew that variety some years ago, so my memory must have played tricks on me. I should have taken a picture of the rose in Italy. BTW, I realised some weeks ago that Peter Beales still sells FD and I put in an order for a new bare root plant. In 2024 I'll be able to compare notes.
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Reply #3 of 6 posted 8 JUL by Marlorena
I agree with you that the foliage is glaucous.... bluey/grey green...

The first time I bought this rose, I was talking with the late Peter Beales at his nursery, and I had a pot of this in my hand... he asked me what it was.. so I showed him the label, he said ''oh yes!''.. but did not mention that it's not actually a Tea rose, which it said on the label..
I was unaware of the discrepancy at that time.. Lovely scent, rather a weak neck..
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Reply #4 of 6 posted 8 JUL by Hamanasu
Thank you, Marlorena. They are still selling it as FD and classifying it as a tea. I understand the logic of that commercially, but it would be nice if in the description they provided further details about the issues with identification of this variety.
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Reply #5 of 6 posted 8 JUL by Marlorena
Best grab one before they sell up ... who knows what might happen to their roses in future..
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Reply #6 of 6 posted 9 JUL by Lee H.
Yes, I see Beales is still selling it as the genuine article, even stating "...bred by Dubreuil". Antique Rose Emporium in the US also sells it with no qualifiers. Which left me only slightly miffed, once I found out how good this impostor really is.
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Discussion id : 127-287
most recent 30 APR 21 HIDE POSTS
 
Initial post 30 APR 21 by Patricia Routley
It seems the SAME ROSE, originating from Sangerhausen in the 1970s (?) is grown around the world, At the very least, we know it is not the original tall, scentless tea ‘Francis Dubreuil 1894: It seems it is not the Kordes 1932 hybrid tea ‘Barcelona’ as is grown in Australia either.

Apparently the rose in the Huntington came from Peter Beales, in an unknown year, as ‘Francis Dubreuil’. (I note Beales 1992 reference for FD says “moderately fragrant”.) So the provanance of this ‘Francis Dubreuil’ seems to be: Sangerhausen-> Beales-> Edberg-> Huntington.

It is possibly the same as another rose at the Huntington under the name of ‘Barcelona’. Presuming this rose is exactly the same as the one above, I am sure there must have been records at the Huntington library on where and when this rose was acquired? Has there been any recent searches for the appropriate accession card? At the moment the provenance of this ‘Barcelona’ rose is: ?-> Huntington for decades.

It is of interest to look at the roses Wilhelm Kordes II was breeding around Barcelona’s date of 1932. Although there was one hybrid perpetual ‘Druschka’ bred from the scentless ‘Frau Karl Druschki’, most of his other roses around that time were hybrid teas. The 1932 reference for ‘Barcelona’ says ....very strong plant, almost straight, does not burn in sun.

Because others have thought that “Francis Dubreuil - in commerce as” may be hybrid perpetual with added china, it may be of value to look at Brent Dickerson’s classification guide to hybrid perpetuals in his identification section of The Old Rose Advisor 1992 page 292 - and share any findings. There are one or two particular traits to look for: low to medium height, strong fragrance, small to medium bloom, blooms burn in sun.
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Discussion id : 117-560
most recent 15 JUL 19 HIDE POSTS
 
Initial post 14 JUL 19 by billy teabag
“Francis Dubreuil (in commerce as)” Distinguishing Features
Inflorescence and Pedicel: Solitary, simple cymes, compound cymes; pedicel slightly curved, glandular.
Bud Shape and Colour: Short, pointed; bright dark red, blackish flush.
Sepals: Textured outer surface.
Flower Size and Shape: Medium (7–9 cm); double (30–40 petals); often opens to circular cup, then loose arrangement, outer petals reflex.
Flower Colour: Deep crimson, shaded black, outside of petals paler, base pink with white nub, occasional white streak.
Petal Shape and Texture: Rounded wedge, notched, often with crinkled top; firm, velvety.
Stamens and Carpels: Visible when fully open.
Stamens: filaments pink, anthers gold.
Carpels: deep pink styles, gold stigmas.
Receptacle and Hip: Small, slender cup, looks smooth but has bands of stalked glands at base and top; hip globular or pyriform, orange.
Fragrance: Strong; sweet, Damask-like.
Leaves: New growth red, young leaves flushed red underneath, older dark green; 3–7 leaflets, rounded elliptical, pointed tip, thick, glands at base; margins undulate, serrations finer towards tip.
Bush: Moderately vigorous; medium height, sturdy, vase-shaped, many new basal shoots; foliage dense; prickles numerous, varying shapes from fine and needle-like to sturdy and triangular.
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Reply #1 of 1 posted 15 JUL 19 by Patricia Routley
Thank you Billy. You give more and finer details that can be added to the main page, so I have added your comment there.
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Discussion id : 117-559
most recent 14 JUL 19 HIDE POSTS
 
Initial post 14 JUL 19 by Margaret Furness
When the assessors for the Rose Trial Ground of the Adelaide Botanic Gardens want to re-set 10 (out of 10) for fragrance, they put their noses into this rose.
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