'Lulu' comments & questions

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Lulu

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General / Miscellaneous most recent 20 APR 16 SHOW ALL

Initial post 6 AUG 06 by Anonymous-797

Reply #1 of 23 posted 8 AUG 06 by William

Reply #6 of 23 posted 11 AUG 06 by Anonymous-105318

Reply #2 of 23 posted 9 AUG 06 by desert dweller

Reply #3 of 23 posted 9 AUG 06 by HMF supporting member

Kim Rupert

Mermaid can, in NO way, be considered "lightly prickled"! They are LARGE, hooked and VERY SHARP! It's a wonderful rose and I adore it, but to even suggest it should be considered similar to a rose such as Zephirine is a great dis service to anyone making use of the misinformation. Mermaid can easily be used as living barbed wire. My place of employment has it enveloping wrought iron fencing. No one in their right mind would EVER attempt to breach that barrier! I've tried shredding Mermaid canes in a ten horse power shredder, years ago when I was much less careful than I've become with time. That was a MISTAKE! They would not shred, but began whipping around like heavily spiked tenticals of a giant squid, hooking me, shredding my clothes and literally attempting to pull me into the shredder! Mermaid is a great rose, but definitely one I would NEVER suggest growing anywhere it can "bite" anyone. Kim Rupert

Reply #4 of 23 posted 9 AUG 06 by William

Kim, My only intention was to give an alternate since I know of no other antique climber this is completely thornless. I do realize that it has SHARP thorns but in my encounters it hasn't had that many. William	REPLY

Reply #5 of 23 posted 10 AUG 06 by Anonymous-97434

There are a few of the Boursault Roses still around, and they are mostly thornless. http://www.helpmefind.com/rose/pl.php?n=813 Their main drawback is they are once blooming.	REPLY

Reply #7 of 23 posted 30 AUG 06 by HMF supporting member

Jeri Jennings

Kim is correct! 'WARE 'Mermaid'!!! It is HEAVILY covered with vicious thorns.Thornless Climbing OGR's??? I'm not aware of any others -- but you CAN grow 'Reine des Violettes' as a low climber -- at least you can in warm climates. And it is virtually thornless.Be careful, however! MANY incorrect roses are sold under the name 'Reine des Violettes!!! This is a rose which I would ONLY purchase from a legitimate specialist grower. I have seen too many "wrong-uns." Jeri JenningsCoastal Ventura County, Southern California

Reply #8 of 23 posted 28 SEP 06 by Unregistered Guest

There is a rose called Martha which is a sport of Zepherine D (I think) that I bought about a year or two ago from Ashdown Roses. It hasn't bloomed as well for me as Zepherine does but I am still hopeful. It is nearly thornless and has grown well--I have it interwoven on a fence. It's a lighter pink with a light fragrance. Sorry I don't have a photo to send you.	REPLY

Reply #9 of 23 posted 28 SEP 06 by polliewogg

And there is another sport of Zephirine called Kathleen Harrop which is a lighter pink than Martha. Both are available from Vintage Gardens and there are pictures.	REPLY

Reply #10 of 23 posted 28 SEP 06 by HMF supporting member

Jeri Jennings

I should mention here that Zephirine Drouhan can have powdery mildew problems in areas where that is a problem. Of course, there are many areas where mildew isn't a big deal -- it's a huge issue where I live. Jeri Jennings Coastal Couthern California	REPLY

Reply #15 of 23 posted 16 MAR 07 by William

I talked with a microbiologist about black spot and she told me to try coarse ground corn meal. She said by accident she found it to kill the fungus in the ground. Sprinkle liberally as it will not harm the roses. If this works it will indeed be a find for natural remedies.	REPLY

Reply #11 of 23 posted 28 SEP 06 by Lulu

Try Climbing Pinkie or Climbing China Doll. These are not heritage roses but are both virtually thornless polyanther type climbers which can be bent easily so make excellent climbers for arbors, gates and verandah posts where prickles are dangerous. Both are pink and very floriferous blooming from spring till late autumn {fall}. I particularly love China Doll and it will strike quite readily if you want more.

Lulu

Reply #12 of 23 posted 11 MAR 07 by Ozarksroselady

I have a Madame Plantier (introduced in 1835). The blooms are white with a tiny green eye at the middle of the center button & have heavenly old-rose fragrance. She is nearly thornless, extremely cold-hardy/drough tolerant & disease-free. I have seen her growing as a graceful, bowing mound, but mine is growing up on a trellis and has canes approx. 12' long. She blooms once, in mid-May here in southern Missouri. See Claire Martin's book 100 Old Roses for the American Garden, p.192-193 for picture & history.

Reply #13 of 23 posted 11 MAR 07 by HMF supporting member

Jeri Jennings

I've seen Mme. Plantier used as a low climber along a picket fence, in a garden in an old Gold Rush town. This wasn't a deserted garden, but a lovely and well-tended one, and I really wanted to ask the lady there about her roses. She was working in her garden when we passed, and must be the only person I've ever met who did not respond favorably to: "Your roses are lovely." :-( Jeri	REPLY

Reply #23 of 23 posted 20 APR 16 by HMF supporting member

GeorgeZ

I've got a Mme. Plantier in my garden for the taking. Any takers?	REPLY

Reply #14 of 23 posted 11 MAR 07 by Ozarksroselady

I thought of another rose that might suit your needs....along with my Madame Plantier, I have growing a Cardinal de Richelieu (introduced 1840)...see Claire Martin's 100 Old Garden Roses for the American Garden, p.106-107. Martin's picture doesn't do the color justice...mine is the most intense deep grape-purple imaginable! The fragrance is of strong, old rose attar. Canes are nearly thornless. Again, mine is growing approx. 12' tall on a trellis--along with the white Mdm. Plantier. Together, they are breath-taking!

Reply #16 of 23 posted 16 MAR 07 by HMF supporting member

Jeri Jennings

Again, the lovely Cardinal de Richelieu is a rose that needs some chill hours. I wish I could grow it in my part of coastal Southern California, but I cannot. :-( Jeri Jennings	REPLY

Reply #17 of 23 posted 16 MAR 07 by HMF supporting member

jedmar

Climbers which are thornless or with few thorns are mostly Multifloras or Noisettes, e.g. Aimée Vibert, Crépuscule, Donau, Emerick-Rose, Euphrosyne, Fortune's Double Yellow, Ghislaine de Feligonde, Lamarque, Madeleine Seltzer, Maria Lisa, Mme Alfred Carriere, Regierungsrat Rottenberger, Tausendschön, Veilchenblau	REPLY

Reply #22 of 23 posted 29 NOV 08 by BarbaraG SE Virginia

Lamarque's prickles may be widely spaced, but they are curved and lethal. Of the noisettes, Reve d'Or would be a better choice-- tiny prickles, and very few. Fortune's Double Yellow is right up there with Mermaid-- serious thorns.	REPLY

Reply #18 of 23 posted 7 APR 07 by Unregistered Guest

If your rose labelled Fortune's Double yellow is thornless, it's something else. FDY is a hooker. Nice list though; some of those I can't get hold of, and would love to grow.	REPLY

Reply #20 of 23 posted 8 APR 07 by HMF supporting member

jedmar

Reply #19 of 23 posted 7 APR 07 by HMF supporting member

Margaret Furness

A hooker is a rose that leaps out and acosts passers-by... I'm told that Claire Jacquier is sometimes sold as Fortune's Double Yellow, but I haven't grown CJ and don't know whether it is prickly.	REPLY

Reply #21 of 23 posted 19 APR 07 by HMF supporting member

billy teabag

Ralph Moore's 1954 'Renae' is an excellent thornless climbing rose. Healthy but not overly rampant. Very recurrent. Fragrant. The blooms are pink, aging to a lighter colour. The rose sold [in Australia] as "Beales Mons. Tillier" has many thornless stems. If you are in a mild climate this makes a beautiful, fragrant climber. The rose sold as "Adam" also has very few prickles.	REPLY

Publication / Article / VideoGrafted Hybrid Teas versus Own-Root Roses. most recent 30 MAY 09 SHOW ALL

Initial post 22 JUN 06 by bmarie

Reply #1 of 7 posted 23 JUN 06 by HMF supporting member

RoseBlush

bmarie........

I live in an old gold mining town in northern California. Yesterday, I spent several hours "rose rustling" in a near by ghost town. Those roses were well over 100 years old.

The reason budded roses have a shorter life span is that most of them have been budded onto virused rootstock. That said, there are some roses that cannot be grown successfully on their own roots. With roses, it's hard to make any generalization because you can count on there being a rose out there that will make a liar out of you.

My personal experience leads me to believe that roses, both grafted and own root, have a longer expected lifetime than the article or book you mentioned in your post.

Smiles,

Lyn, helpmefind.com

Reply #2 of 7 posted 25 JUL 06 by Lulu

I don't think that this article is accurate unless there were extremes of climate or something else involved. I am sure many people growing roses that read this will write in to tell you of many roses that they have had for years that are grafted. My garden is only young but my three year old roses are still doing fine. Lulu	REPLY

Reply #7 of 7 posted 30 MAY 09 by Mylissa

I am the author and the article is accurate and "stems" from my experience of over 40 years playing with dirt. I have gardened in Texas and Missouri, two of the harshest climates on earth and was also a florist who tended a small nursery. I had good friends who owned an own-root rose nursery in Texas and shared their experiences and shared their roses. I currently live on three acres here in the Midwest and have over 45 roses... NONE are grafted... Those died long ago... Nevertheless, if you like to putter, spray, nurter and be a babysitter aka slave with your grafted teas, and vow to keep the grafted rose business alive and well, then feel free... have fun and enjoy, but please, if you disagree, follow up and share your experiences a' la contrary... I would love to hear about them!

Reply #3 of 7 posted 25 JUL 06 by scottclifton

Could you please reference the article you had read. I would like to see which varieties were tested and what environmental variables were present. A 3 to 5 year life span seems incredibly short for a plant (a hardy variety) that has been given the proper care and winter protection. I have about a 50/50 ratio of own root/grafted roses in my garden and have been unable to draw any general conclusions about how how one type performs over the other. I have several varieties where I have both own root and grafted plants and have observed different results for different varieties. With so many variables in growing roses, I consider any insight helpful. Thanks for your contribution! -- Scott

Reply #4 of 7 posted 26 JUL 06 by bmarie

Hi, unfortunately I can't find the article where I read that statement. I didn't make it up though. It makes sense to me that if the rose is the kind that can be grown on its own roots that it will be stronger because the graft is a possible source of weakness. I am not an expert, just making a comment.	REPLY

Reply #5 of 7 posted 26 JUL 06 by scottclifton

Thanks for tour reply! I was just curious to see how the author made the comparison and which varieties were compared. I have heard many varying opinions on the budded vs own-root subject, so I try to learn all I can about the pros and cons of each type and try to apply that knowledge to selecting the best type for a variety I want to grow. I appreciate that you and the other posters on HMF take the time to share their knowledge and opinions.

Thanks Again! -- Scott

Reply #6 of 7 posted 28 JUL 06 by Lulu

Hi Scott,

When you plant the graft below the soil level the rose often roots from the graft as well as having the roots from the rootstock so you get the added strength of both. The Yates Roses book that I have just been reading, [Yates is a large company in Australia supplying garden products and seeds] has stated that grafted roses can live for 20 yrs given good growing practices. I have several roses in my garden that I have grown cuttings from so have both types of the same bush. My tea rose Duchess de Brabant does much better, in my opinion, on its own roots than the grafted one and so far my David Austins on their own roots are doing very well also but it is too soon for me to know if they will do better than the original grafted ones. We now have some nurseries here putting cutting grown roses on the market but it is difficult for them to get enough quickly to supply the demand as obviously they take longer to be marketable than the grafted varieties. Also some roses are very hard to strike especially many Hybrid Teas. Try striking your own if you haven't yet as it is a lot of fun and you can get good information on how to do it from this site and others on the net.

Happy gardening, Lulu

Website Errors and Problems most recent 5 JUL 07 HIDE POSTS

Initial post 4 JUL 07 by Lulu

I have a new e-mail address xxxxxxxxxx@bigpond.com [HMF editor] - remove email address from msg.	REPLY

Reply #1 of 1 posted 5 JUL 07 by HMF supporting member

HMF Admin

You can update you registration anytime you like. Just click the MY HMF menu item and then the appropriate EDIT button. Also, fyi, it's NEVER a good idea to include you email address in the text of forum message - it is sure to attract the attention of an email spammer. Let us know if you need Help.	REPLY

What is this ? most recent 7 MAY 07 SHOW ALL

Initial post 7 JUL 06 by Meschuee

Hello.I'ts me again, with another unknown rose. I think I planted a small cutting a couple of years ago and this is the result. It's a lovely ivory colour with pale yellow buds and doesn't have much of a scent and they hang down. I wondered whether it was "Iceberg" but I think she's whiter than this.Hope you enjoy seeing her whether or not you know her name. Bye, Penny.	REPLY

Reply #1 of 22 posted 8 JUL 06 by Wendy C

It could be Iceberg. Your blooms appear to have some water, thrip or some other damage. The damage will cause a white rose to appear more ivory. How does this one grow? Is it spreading on slender canes? Iceberg is spreading, free flowering and when small has slender canes.	REPLY

Reply #3 of 22 posted 10 JUL 06 by Meschuee

Hello and thanks for your help.. We had a fall of heavy rain over two days and the roses were affected. They've also all got, or had, blackspot - it's been rife this year. I've got "something" munching on leaves, too, there are big swathes eaten out of another rose's leaves. There aren't many canes yet but what there are are quite slim. I photographed it this morning and it shows the beautiful peach colour inside. I've attached a photo in which you can see canes. I though "Iceberg" was much whiter than this rose but I'm sure there are variations, as you suggest. Bye,Penny.

Reply #2 of 22 posted 9 JUL 06 by Jody

Hi Penny, did you decide if it is Iceberg? or ?? I have a Mystery rose posted too that I have no idea what it is, but it is beautiful. every single blossom is different. Yours looks like Iceberg, yet it doesn't quite look like Iceberg? well yours is pretty whatever it is!!!!! Jody	REPLY

Reply #4 of 22 posted 10 JUL 06 by Meschuee

Hello Jody.Hope you and your roses are well. :) It's fun, but frustrating, to have unknown roses. Not sure yet what the rose is. I've just posted another photo. The "Iceberg" I see at the garden centre where I clean the cafe on a Saturday evening, and help out with watering when needed, is much whiter. I'll probably never know but it is a pretty rose, and as it came from a cutting I took from a garden, is a "freebie". Bye, Penny.

Reply #5 of 22 posted 10 JUL 06 by Jody

Hi Penny, how are you? Yes having a mystery rose can be fun (and frustrating) I have bought most of my roses from clearance sales, garden club grab bags, and Church sales. and in most cases the people didn't know what they were. I have been very lucky to get quality, beautiful, healthy (if mystery) roses. The only roses not well right now are ones I bought from a Nursery where I paid full price, a Midnight Blue and a Rugelda. The Midnight Blue wilted in our recent heat wave and the Rugelda has never thrived even with TLC. I even tried Messenger on it. So anyway, I look at the mystery part of it as fun. Only one of my dollar roses didn't make it and my Apothecary Rose I only paid $1.00 so I feel lucky. Your free rose is really pretty whatever it is.!!! Jody

Reply #6 of 22 posted 17 JUL 06 by Meschuee

Excellent, Jody. I suppose the "give-away" freebies must be hardy in the first instance to survive without much care, whereas "proper" bought roses are rather refined! :)Your "Midnight Blue" sounds interesting, even though it decided to give up, and "Regelda". I don't know either of them and will look them up.Bye,Penny.	REPLY

Reply #8 of 22 posted 17 JUL 06 by Jody

Hi Penny, how are all your roses doing???? My Midnight Blue is actually coming back and looking much better but we are getting hit with another heat wave, so I have it protected from the hot aft sun with an old beach umbrella. It does better with only getting morning sun, so I may move it this Fall.The Rugelda, I have about given up on it. but will give it til next Spring and see what it does. I think some plants just don't thrive no matter what. Right now I am interested in a climber called Hamburger Phoenix, (odd name isn't it.) a beautiful red climber to plant to climb up an apple tree. just daydreaming. Getting good roses from these sales is really luck but I don't buy them from stores , only Church and garden club sales and so far, so good. This last weekend, I got a pot of Rosa Rugosa for $5 at a Church sale and there were 3 starts in it. so we will see how they do. Check out Hamburger Phoenix and also www.oldladyofoldroses.ca. You have prob run across her on this site and she has gorgeous roses and photos. Hope you and all your roses are doing well?!! Jody

Reply #10 of 22 posted 18 JUL 06 by Meschuee

Hello Jody.We are all, including the plants, sizzling. Thanks for asking. The temperature is 104 degrees Farenheit today, hot enough to fry an egg on the paving stones. I can't walk on them with bare feet! I'm having to watering the roses in tubs morning and evening, and sometimes in between. The ones planted against the trellis are being watered every few days as they're newly planted. I see they are putting out shoots. I think I could have chosen a more vigourous specimen of "Schoolgirl", there are better looking ones in the garden centre, but I'll see how she does. I'm helping at a local Garden Centre Fete in August, on the book stall. Hoping for some books on roses. Good idea of yours, to buy plants at those sorts of places. I hope there are some roses for sale. The dogs (four of them) are all feeling like "hot-dogs" and don't want to do much but sleep in this heat. I wish our normal wet weather would come back. I like the rain. :) I'm having to water the bonsai three, or more, times a day. Hope your climate is more temperate and that you're well. I'll go and take a look at "Hamburger Pheonix" (people from Hamburg are called Hamburgers, so that's probably something to do with the name). Sounds interesting. I didn't like red roses much to begin with, but they are growing on me (excuse the pun)!Bye.

Reply #11 of 22 posted 18 JUL 06 by Jody

Hi Penny, sorry it is so hot there. It is much cooler where I am (70) though it is supposed to be 90 by Sat. Most of the US is in a heat wave. My father- in- law lives in Phoenix, AZ and it's 115. he just doesn't go outside much. So is Schoolgirl not liking the heat or just not thriving or what?? you mention the roses in tubs. so you have alot of your roses in pots? Kim suggested I do that with the Rugelda, put it in a pot, feed it and try to get it to do better that way. So I think I am going to do that. I only have in pots a couple miniature roses and a baby Sitka rose (Rosa Rugosa) a friend in AK started from seed. But I think that's a good idea to pot it and leave it the pot for winter.I hope your Garden Fete turns out well. I am anxiously awaiting a book I ordered from Amazon for 1.99 . The Random House Book of Old Roses. I have their main book of Rose but this is old roses. re the Hamburger Phoenix, if you went to the site you know it says the name symbolizes Hamburg rising from the ashes of post war Germany. She has some gorgeous roses on that site. I also like Topaz Jewel. well nice chatting with you. I sure have learned alot from people on this site. I'd like to hear more about you keeping your roses in tubs and how they do. are these young roses or? and which ones? Hope it cools down for you and the roses... Jody

Reply #15 of 22 posted 19 JUL 06 by Meschuee

Hello Jody.I've two climbers in big tubs against trellis on the wall ouside the kitchen window and they do very well. Some labels on roses do state whether they are suitable for tubs. You are able to control their watering and feeding and give them extra care if needed. One of them is "Gloire d' Dijon", the other is the one we think is "Abraham Darby", which I grew from a cutting planted in a much smaller pot. They were put in the big tubs last year and this is the first year of them flowering.The six new climbers are in the ground, one being "Schoogirl". I think she's just a lesser-developed one than the others I saw at the Garden Centre, and will be all right once she's settled, though her label did say she likes full sun and she's in a position where it's shady around 2 p.m. each day. Next spring will tell whether she wants moving. :)What a lovely idea for the name of "Hamburger Pheonix". Your book sounds good. I'll certainly look up that site and "Topaz Jewel", thanks a lot. I like knowing about rose sites. It's still extremely hot and the plants are being watered morning and evening and sometimes in between. I'm about to go out and do a Rain-Dance!! The weather is supposed ot break over the next couple of days, but we will have to wait and see.Bye,Penny.

Reply #20 of 22 posted 21 JUL 06 by Jody

Hi Penny, we are sweltering here too, with 90 degree weather. very unusual for the Pacific Northwest. At least we have power. Some cities like New York are having black outs. Thanks for the info on your tub roses. I finally dug up the Rugelda and put in a tub in a different location. I have given it two years and as Lyn so aptly put it, then I could make more room in the "rose real estate". So now I will have fun next Spring choosing a new healthy plant. I will probably go with another Rugosa. Maybe that Topaz Jewel. I have mostly pink and would like to go with another color. Interestingly that Mystery Rose I have is still blooming like crazy and the buds have now changed to a deep red. Must be the heat I guess. I can spend all winter pouring over the site and books choosing which NEW rose to get.. such fun!!!! well I think I will go turn the hose on some plants and maybe myself too!!!! Take Care Jody

Reply #7 of 22 posted 17 JUL 06 by HMF supporting member

Kim Rupert

Reply #9 of 22 posted 18 JUL 06 by Meschuee

Hello Kim.No, I've not done that. I'll give it a try. I've several pieces of climbers planted here and there to see whether they'll shoot. Thanks for the idea.Bye. :)	REPLY

Reply #12 of 22 posted 18 JUL 06 by Jody

Reply #13 of 22 posted 19 JUL 06 by Lulu

Hi Penny, Iceberg is the most planted rose in Australia so I am very familiar with it as I have several. I am sure that your rose is not iceberg. It is very beautiful though. As well as fine stems Iceberg has quite distinctive leaves of very light green. As I look through my rose books I will keep an eye out for a rose similar to yours, regards Lulu	REPLY

Reply #14 of 22 posted 19 JUL 06 by Meschuee

Thanks very much, Lulu.I do like "Iceberg". Is it grown so much in Australia because of its hardiness? There are specimens in the Garden Centre, even a climbing one, I believe, and it is much whiter than my "ivory" coloured rose. Hope we do come across one like,ome some time. The stems are patchy with lightish green and then reddish-green markings. It's not very thorny and there's a main bud with clusters of three buds slightly further down the stem and it's fairly compact, at present anyway.For interest, I bought a T-Shirt in a charity shop this morning, the one with a small clematis design had gone, with aboriginal art on it. I found the painting on the net as it's by J. W. Eastwood - "Balance of Nature". It makes a lovely design on a burgandy colour material. The T-Shirt was obviously bought in Australia and brought back here, and is most likely an unwanted, or wrong-sized, present. :)An on-line friend in British Columbia sent me a photo of their apricot-coloured rose and thinks it's New Dawn". She's going to find out for me. Here's the photo, for interest.Bye,Penny.

Reply #16 of 22 posted 19 JUL 06 by Jody

Reply #17 of 22 posted 19 JUL 06 by Meschuee

I agree, Jody. It's a lovely rose. Yes, I thought "New Dawn" was pink. I'm waiting to see if Carole knows it's name.:)I have Red New Dawn and it's a nice rose, the blooms are very long-lived.:)	REPLY

Reply #18 of 22 posted 20 JUL 06 by Lulu

Hi Penny,

I think Iceberg is so popular because it is so easy to grow and almost never without flowers. It makes a great show. I have climbing Iceberg in also but as it was young last year I haven't had many flowers on it yet, this year it should be good. Iceberg will also grow in a bit of shade so that is handy. It is a spreading open bush rather than compact as yours is. If you can get a cutting of it or the climber it is relatively easy to strike which is why I have a few.

My book describes New Dawn as a wichuraiana rambler of silver-pink with moderate fragrance so we will have to try again for your friends rose. regards Lulu

Reply #19 of 22 posted 21 JUL 06 by Meschuee

Thanks, Lulu. I'm still waiting to hear from Carole in British Columbia as to whether she can remember what the rose was. If she can, I'll let you all know.I mentioned to the Manager of the GardenCentre (where I clean and help with the watering) you saying that "Iceberg" is planted so widely in Australia and he says it's because it's so hardy and will grow anywhere. I must get one. I'd love a climbing "Iceberg" and there is one at the Centre that I hanker after each time I pass it. :DVery hot still - praying that the weather breaks soon.One of the ladies in the shop at the Garden Centre asked me to go out and choose a rose shrub to give to her mother, I took two in to show her and she chose the lovely "Natlie Nypels". It was covered in flowers.:)

Reply #21 of 22 posted 6 MAY 07 by edalweber

Looks like "Jacotte" to me.	REPLY

Reply #22 of 22 posted 7 MAY 07 by Unregistered Guest

Hello. Thanks very much for the suggested name. I'll take a look at that one. It's now 7th May, 2007, and the rose is coming into flower for the first time this year. I just love it. Bye, Penny.	REPLY