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Margaret Furness 
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Initial post
2 days ago by
fenriz
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Hello again,
I’ve found this Rose with big white flowers 2 weeks ago.
She has no thorns (!) and grew next to a rose arch which was occupied by an overgrowing rootstock or wild rose. The habit was more hybrid-tea like but the location or overgrowing rootstock seemed to have weakened her just a bit. Nevertheless she grew over a meter, seemed too stiff to be a climber, but she could be cut more than needed.
She flowered mid-june in Germany and for now (end of june) has no flowers just big green pedicels (?). Big white flowers with a pink hue, could be scented but I just remember their beauty. Didn’t seem like Gruß an Aachen to me, but that one is a shape-shifter.
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If it produces more crops of flowers, it would be worth looking at Mme Alfred Carriere. Most people consider it scented. Though it would be ambitious for someone to plant a rose which can get very big, in a restricted site.
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#2 of 5 posted
2 days ago by
fenriz
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Thank you! I think it really is Mme. Alfred Carriere. All those features revealed her, even the unripe hips check as well. Her anomaly could be explained by the subpar location which the rootstock took advantage of.
But don’t be fooled, the arch is over 2 meters at the highest point, but you’re right a Noisette will still need and take up more space.
Even two low-climbing Roses would have been better suited, but they may not possess the beauty of those flowers.
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You're welcome. I can't help with your red rose, unless it's Crimson Glory (1935) - I don't know modern roses at all.
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#4 of 5 posted
today by
fenriz
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It will be that newer Kordes-Rose, but I was amazed, in the local rosary it was a rather ugly burned dark-red rose.
Have you by chance experienced “Crimson King”?
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The colour isn't what I expect from this rose, but light conditions and cameras can affect that.
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Rose Listing Omission
Rosa 'Mrs Dale's Rose'
Sent to Graham Stuart Thomas in the 1980s Mrs Dales asked for an identification of the rose. Graham was unable to and named it after Mrs Dale. Its a medium sized shrub rose with purple/ lilac flowers. Doesn't produce rose hips and the only location known to have the rose is Mottisfont National Trust.
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Needs double inverted commas, as a study name.
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Initial post
13 days ago by
HubertG
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I wonder whether this might be the original 'Lady Mary Fitzwilliam'. The foliage, flowers and plentiful hips seem to be a match. Or maybe one of her closer descendants?
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#1 of 4 posted
13 days ago by
Lee H.
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That’s an exciting proposition. LMF is such an important rose, and deserves a better fate than extinction. If I had access to both, I’d want to cross her with ‘Dr. Grill’, and see if something approximating ‘Antoine Rivoire’ would result. Because science, you know? :-)
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Contributions from members on the average height of “Bishop’s Lodge Mary Mathews” might help.
The original ‘Lady Mary Fitzwilliam’ was low.
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From memory, the plant at Renmark was less than 1.2m high.
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#4 of 4 posted
11 days ago by
HubertG
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Thanks, Margaret. The photo by Ozoldroser of the bush at 'Budgewah', Hay certainly looks wider than it is high.
I'm only going by the photos here, but I'm really struck at how closely the flower form and petals match the photos of LMF and her sports. I can see the same shallowly concave/shell-shaped petals with scrolled edges and central notches at the petal tips, and how the outer ones reflex to form an angular silhouette. Even the buds are somewhat pointed but with scrolled edges. The rounded leaflets and their spacing also seems to be a perfect match to the Jekyll/Mawley photo. A search online will show a couple of bloom photos on facebook which are almost identical matches to that same photo.
After my initial thought that this looks like LMF was one doubting its likeliness to have been growing at Hay at the time of Bishop Anderson (1896-1925) or, if it was there, to have survived. However a search of the local Hay newspaper The Riverine Grazier gives two mentions of 'Lady Mary Fitzwilliam' winning in the cut flower section at the annual Hay Spring Show - one in 1897 and one in 1899, both as specimens in a group of six different varieties and shown by different exhibitors. The 1899 mention is interesting because it immediately goes on to mention the Bishop of Riverina's display of pelargoniums, some of his own breeding. So it seems certain that Bishop Anderson would have seen LMF displayed at the Hay Show. I don't know if he dabbled in breeding roses as well as pelargoniums but if he did it's intriguing to speculate that he might also have grown LMF for its reputation as being a good parent.
Anyway, I think it definitely needs observation so if anyone here grows it more photos would be much appreciated. Of course I could be barking up the wrong tree but I just can't unsee what I've now seen. It would be awesome if LMF didn't go extinct.
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