HELPMEFIND PLANTS COMMERCIAL NON-COMMERCIAL RESOURCES EVENTS PEOPLE RATINGS
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StrawChicago heavy clay zone 5
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Initial post
16 APR 09 by
maele
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Love, love, love it! So far it's doing well in it's first southern california spring that's been a little colder than usual. Still waiting to see what it does in the HOT summer ahead, but will post an update. Blooms like crazy, and no blooms fell off in yesterday's high winds. Beautiful ruffled edges, worth it for that feature alone. Also, no signs of disease. Colors are muted but pretty, open up russettish, fade to salmon pinkish/lavender when spent.
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This is a nice, healthy rose that blooms freely and well. I just can't stand the color. It must be a personal quirk, but the color is very unsettled, harsh and doesn't combine well with other colors in the garden.
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Jeff, you got further than I did. I couldn't bring myself to purchase CdM.
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#3 of 22 posted
11 MAY 09 by
Don H
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There is a bed of Cinco de Mayo at Elizabeth Park in Hartford. I have to say that the photos at HMF don't really capture its appearance in a bed, or even the flowers - the blooms have much more yellow in them here. It's a hugely floriferous plant, as well.
That said, the foliage and especially the canes detract from it, being very rustic looking and quite prickly. It is not high on my list as a breeder but I do think it would be worth exploring and may give it some attention this year as a pollen parent. I have a couple of OP seedlings going of it as well.
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I didn't buy CDM to put in my garden. NO way would the color work anywhere. I bought three plants for a neighbor and she's thrilled with them. She likes anything bright and gaudy, and in her garden it seems to look O.K. CDM does flower like a trooper, though the growth is a bit uneven -- some short and some tall canes, so you don't get a very rounded bush without some heavy-handed pruning.
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You know, I knew that the color of CDM reminded me of something, and yesterday the penny dropped. The color reminds me of when someone's mother used to mix grape Kool-Aid with Hawaiian Punch and serve it at a kids party. It tasted strange, too!
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#5 of 22 posted
15 MAY 09 by
Linette
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We purchased the Cinco de Mayo and what a disappointment. It's a healthy plant and blooms frequently, however the color is awful and not as pictured at all. I thought the more it bloomed and became established, that the color would be truer to the picture but I think it has settled on a Coral with some blooms containing yellow streaks. I purchased this rose specifically for a corner that had been without for years (waiting on the right one) and I thought I had found the one with Cinco de Mayo. The blooms do not last long and the only positive I can find is the foliage color. This is one rose that I will be removing once I find a better one to add. I have never felt this way about a plant and much more a rose. I learn to live with the sometimes "not as pictured" roses but this rose is so different in color, it would almost be easier to believe they packaged the wrong plant in error. I only see the purple hues when the flower has died (so dead the petals are dry).
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Thank you for the info. that blooms don't last long.
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Wow I'm shocked with everyone disliking the color. I find it to be too beautiful for words! There is no way to photograph it and capture its nuances and color variations. I guess to each his own. I do wonder though if location makes a difference. Some roses look like completely different roses if viewed across the states and globe. I've mixed mine with a lavender pink rose and two very deep red roses. The combo is divine!
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#9 of 22 posted
4 JUN 09 by
maele
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The color does change a LOT, but I find the foliage really pretty. Even though it does match absolutely nothing, I am planning to put it with lavender perennials, a red japanese maple that is a dark maroon, and maybe small red roses. For me the second bloom cycle had a few dark orange flowers, but my friend's plant did turn very gaudy as some of you mentioned. Hers is from Star and mine is from Weeks, but I don't know if it makes a difference.
Now mine seems to have settled into a beautiful muted russet color, and it blooms all the time. I agree with everyone that this is a strange looking plant, but I still like it. One cool thing is that the color can pull together other random colors in a vase of cut roses, since it has a little bit of everything.
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I can see 'Distant Drums' as a good companion rose! Just thought of this combo!
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"Yikes", lol, I had the same reaction!
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Robert, you have no taste :P
I actually like this rose. It has a nice bushy habit. The color is very Fall-like here in Oregon. It is very rustic. It actually has a strong Pacific NW feel to it. My main complaint of it is that I feel it should be stronger smelling for what it is. I wish Distant Drums had a more natural bush like CdM does, and I wish CdM had a more memorable scent like DD does, lol.
At any rate, I would recommend this rose for rounding out any angular corners in the garden --especially those corners that need a smooth, dark touch to it -- not something punctual or attention seeking.
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Vive la difference! ;-)
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#22 of 22 posted
9 days ago by
 Erica A
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15 years later, I came across this thread while debating putting Distant Drums next to the CdM currently in my garden. :) both plants have such wildly variably colored blooms, I think that it will sometimes be drop-dead gorgeous and other times a bit questionable, and that will be part of the fun.
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C'mon guys! Are ya color blind? ;) I just thought with Distant Drums being peach pink and purple it would echo a paler version of Cinco de Mayo. Now stop making fun of my color sense - I do have a Master of Fine Arts in Painting after all - whadyo got? ;)
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Degrees in horticulture. ;-)
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Now add Victoriana, and you'll have the full catastrophe.
(My degree is in radiology - black & white stuff.)
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Degree in horticulture and strong opinions. That's all. And in NO way do I mean to demean anyone's color sense. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder. I believe that completely. CDM has merits that I cannot appreciate, but you do. Thank God we're not all alike!
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This rose was under 3+ inches of bark and didn't make it through a zone 5 winter roses two foot to the right and left did so I'm not buying the Zone2...
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Agree with you on HMF's wrong info. of hardy to zone 2b, which costs cold-zoners like us $$, considering that each own-root rose costs $25 to $40. I lost over $1,000 for the past decades of roses dying through my zone 5a winter, either through wrong info. about hardiness, or the weather itself. That's why I post in HMF to help other cold-zoners, and I appreciate your info. (NorthWestRider) as to which roses survived your zone 5b. Many thanks.
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#2 of 5 posted
7 SEP 17 by
jedmar
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That was clearly incorrect information. I do not know many roses which can survive Zone 2! Thank you for pointing it out. Meilland roses are generally good for Zone 7b and above.
If you see other obvious errors, please shout!
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Princess Alexandra of Kent (PAK) is listed by HMF as hardy to zone 2b. A Wisconsin zone 5b grower bought that as own-root and it died on her first winter. For Meilland roses, only Tchaikovsky (very disease-resistant), Bolero, Sweet Promise 2007, and Betty White survived more than three zone 5a winters. Liv Tyler and Frederic Mistral died on me after a few winters. Link to PAK:
https://www.helpmefind.com/rose/l.php?l=2.43762
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#4 of 5 posted
7 SEP 17 by
jedmar
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There are several gardens in 4a and 4b where PAK seems to be growing in Europe. I know that in Russia they have very extensive winter protection with tunnels etc. The comments say that there is a case where PAK has survived 4b colds in USA, too. 5b is probably all right.
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Canyon Road and a few others are bred out of Prairie Princess and Red Max Graf. Unsure how hardy of them truly are. I can only test for cold snap resistance, since we do not go below 0F here. Sometimes I can see root hardiness if I leave them in a grow-out pot over winter. Its a great way to weed out seedlings for cold sensitivity (note to breeders... lol), but not practical for the purposes of Canadian rosarians and the like.
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I'm super disappointed. I just winter pruned this rose today, and I pruned off 3/4 of the total stems. This rose has a lot of dieback when it should not. While pruning, I noticed the wood is rather thin. Even the larger stems are a bit bendy. Of the good wood, a raspberry cane borer decided to finish off that entire basal.
This is a problem for growing it in the Pacific NW... The same problem as Ketchup and Mustard.
This is why testing commercial roses ONLY in the Deep South and Desert SW is not the greatest of ideas by these corporations.
They cannot test for these problems, because they are entirely climatic responses by the varieties.
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Thank you. You saved me from buying it. I was tempted to get it as own root for my zone 5, but most likely it won't survive my winter if the cane is thin. Stephen Big Purple survived seven winters as own root since its cane is thicker.
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I was very sad about this, because SMB had fat, rounded clusters and nice fragrance, on a rounded plant. All of what I want in a flori.
I have yet to go prune Perfume Factory, another newer one. Neptune does well here so I hope for no problems with PF.
Actually, I have 3 now. A nursery mislabeled one, so I sent it to the farm to grow. Then I liked it so I got one. And then JP sent me Perfume Factory instead of what I ordered lol. Its not a bad rose. I will evaluate its winter wood this month though.
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Thank you, I would love to learn the winter hardiness of Perfume Factory, since Neptune died on zone 5 & zone 6 folks. Sweet Madame Blue is listed as 2 to 3 feet tall by 2 feet wide .. and for non-Austin to survive zone 5, they need to be at least 3 feet tall. Big Purple got over 3 feet tall and survived seven zone 5 winters. Austin Young Lycidas is very purple & very fragrant but it died fast for cold zoners. My Young Lycidas was 1 foot tall with super-thin stems, and the plant is smaller than a petunia nearby !! I thought my black clay was bad, until another cold-zoner said her Young Lycidas is also under 1 foot.
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I went to prune my Perfume Factory, and 3 huge canes got raspberry cane borer (a local issue, as this is berry country), which does not discriminate roses. I have even seen them dig into Rosa glutinosa. OUCH! So I will not be able to tell til I make it out to the farm where the other clone is.
Neptune does not get it, however. It can be tender to winter snaps (massive temp drops in late winter/early spring), but the wood is okay versus the cruddy stuff.
I bought 3 new mauves last year, at quite the premium. I have no idea how their wood mature, as they are immature own-roots. Muriel Robin, Simply Gorgeous, and Purple Fragrancia.
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This rose has a strong scent, and colour, when opening, varying from myrrh to tea later..
My rose is disease free so far [late June], but I have heard reports of mildew affecting the rose in some gardens here in England, this early summer..
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Powdery mildew is hard to judge. Sometimes a rose is truly prone to it, and sometimes its the case of a rose that requires extra water and a more extensive root system in place. I have seen many roses mature out of powdery, and some that will have it in the best of conditions after 5 years of maturation.
This rose is new, and while I have not seen it get powdery, it does look like a water intensive rose. We'll know in a few years which scenario is truly the case. Hopefully its just one that needs to have a more mature root system.
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No mildew for me but some early blackspot. 3rd year much better repeat, 2nd flush starting as soon as the first is over.
Obelisk supported, 5-6 feet, East Anglia, England..
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Do you cut it 6-12" above ground or let it be? I truly don't want to move mine for those dimensions.
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I let it be, just deadheading and light pruning to shape... it's never been pruned down at all.. here in UK it would be easy enough to keep more shrublike.
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Ah, thank you. Yeah, I plan to keep it shorter.
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Anyone knows if this rose makes better cut flowers than Golden Celebration (lasts 3 days in the vase for me). How is the scent of this rose compared to myrrh in Carding Mill? Carding Mill does not last long in vase, and I'm looking for ANY yellow or apricot roses that last long in the vase with decent scent. Thank you.
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Sorry, mine had a slow start, but eventually did take off, so mostly only August blooms. The fragrance and color were quite good, and they did last reasonably well for August, but I didn't try cutting them. Remind me next year.
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Michael: Thank you !! I appreciate all the great info. you provided to HMF. Agree with you that yellow roses require more water. I once had a Sutter's Gold own root rose that refused to bloom in a fabric Smart pot. Lesson learned: soil stays wetter in a plastic container. Or Arthur Bell (yellow) own root broke out in blackspots since I didn't like it and neglected watering in hot summer.
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Yes, be careful with cloth pots, as well as using a table where the bottom of a grow bench is outdoors and has nothing but metal/plastic frame mostly made of air space. Either of these will air-wick your plants into misery.
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