HELPMEFIND PLANTS COMMERCIAL NON-COMMERCIAL RESOURCES EVENTS PEOPLE RATINGS
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Palustris 
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Would people who grow this rose, please look at "Loveday" to see if it matches. Lady Gay reached Australia but was not included in the 1996 Australian Rose Directory: presumably it was no longer in commerce then.
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I have seen the color change from pink to white on 'Lady Gay'. The pedicles look correct as well with just sprinkle of bristles. One characteristic for LG is a "halo" of lighter petals surrounding the darker ones as illustrated in a couple of my photos under that rose.
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Thank you. Some photos of "Loveday" show that feature, and I think the suggestion of Lady Gay (which came from Patricia) is a good one.
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Initial post
14 DEC 21 by
Le_Not
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No less a gardener than Gertrude Jekyll (in "Roses for English Gardens", 1902) puts 'Mrs John Laing' on her list of the best roses:
"Rosy pink; vigorous. Few Roses have so many good qualities. It is hardy, of good growth, and free-flowering, and almost as good in the garden as in the show."
(And for what it's worth, I think she's right. 'Mrs John Laing' really is a splendid rose: a hybrid perpetual that everyone should grow.)
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What page please, and we’ll add that as a reference.
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#2 of 7 posted
14 DEC 21 by
jedmar
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Thank you Jedmar. Reference added.
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"Gertrude Jekyll (in "Roses for English Gardens", 1902) puts 'Mrs John Laing' on her list of the best roses:"
Back in my younger days I was an acolyte of both GJ and Graham Stuart Thomas and purchased many of the roses they recommended. I purchased 'Mrs. John Laing' in 1993, 2001, 2002, & 2003 from Sequoia Nursery, Heirloom Old Garden Roses, and Vintage Gardens. All four plants failed to thrive and died. I made the assumption that I was purchasing the same clone from the three nurseries and that there was a deficiency in that particular clone. Now that I know someone is happy with their 'Mrs. John Laing', I would be interested to learn where it was purchased.
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#5 of 7 posted
15 DEC 21 by
Le_Not
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I purchased two from High Country Roses this year: one for me, and one for my mother's rose garden. (And yes, of course it was due to the glowing reviews from GST!) Both arrived in excellent shape (far larger than any of the other HCR plants, some of which were tiny), and have thrived. Mine was almost continually in flower from July until our hard frost on October 31st. The real test will be her winter hardiness, of course, but 'Mrs John Laing' certainly is in good shape going into winter.
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#6 of 7 posted
2 JAN 23 by
Le_Not
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Hi Palustris,
It may interest you to know that HCR finally has 'Mrs John Laing' back in stock.
By the way, I can now attest that both my coddled MJL and my mother's (in much harsher conditions) handled last year's challenging winter just fine. (It wasn't atypically cold for Zone 5b, but there was a spring thaw followed by a very punishing hard freeze.)
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Many thanks, it looks like MJL might be worth trying again!
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The 1904 Blush Rambler reference is interesting in that it says the foliage is very similar to its seed parent ‘Crimson Rambler’. For what it is worth, I’ll attach a photo of my 1893 ‘Crimson Rambler’ leaf (left) and a leaf of what I believe is c1895 Dawson’s ‘Apple Blossom‘ (right). I do not have ‘Blush Rambler’.
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I have some photos of the roses received as Blush Rambler and Cherub at Araluen.
If I put them here in comments for a start, can we have a conversation about what they might be and where they could be uploaded?
Re the leaves - I went back and forth between the two plants, thinking one had upturned leaflets or more conspicuous serrations or different shaped leaflets, but no - both plants had quite a wide range of variation in the leaflets.
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A few more photos of the two roses at Araluen
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Billy,
I was under the impression my ‘Crimson Rambler’ has light green leaves. I still think so, but a photograph or two this morning of the leaves tells me there is very little difference in the colour of ‘Crimson Rambler’ and the rose which came to me as ‘Cherub’ from Melville-> Del Bibby-> ROS-O-SW and which I was thinking might be Dawson’s ‘Apple Blossom’. I am sure we are talking about the same clone. Seamus (Mostly Roses) tells me his ‘Blush Rambler’ came from Ken Poultney.
There are a couple of references which say ‘Blush Rambler’ has “pyramidal clusters” and that, combined with the references to light green leaves leads to my doubt.
I have deleted my Comment of yesterday and for the sake of flow, have attached it below. I guess all you can do is read the references and comments.
As at Dec 18, 2022 Australian nurseries and major gardens are listing the following roses on HelpMeFind:
Apple Blossom - see 2006 ref.
Dawson 1890. Dawson x R. multiflora.
Thomas for Roses
Apple Blossom See Comment 20-440 initial post and Comment 23-066 reply 2 of 2.
Burbank 1932 Dawson x R. multiflora
Mistydowns, Ross, Vic State.
Blush Rambler. - has light green foliage similar to Crimson Rambler.
B.R. Cant 1903. Crimson Rambler x The Garland.
Araluen, Mistydowns, Mostly Roses, Old Parliament Hazlewood, Thomas for Roses, Vic State.
Cherub. - was salmon pink, ages to carmine pink. Probably extinct- see refs.
Alister Clark <1920. Seedling of Claire Jacquier.
Alister Clark Mem Gdns Bulla, Araluen, Mistydowns, Old Parliament tennis, Vic State.
Kew Rambler - has prickles.
Unknown breeder 1912. Rosa Soulieana x Hiawatha
Mistydowns, Saumarez, Thomas for Roses,
Or in another format:
Alister Clark Mem Gdns, Bulla: has Cherub.
Araluen: has Blush Rambler, Cherub.
Mistydowns: had Apple Blossom (Burbank), Blush Rambler, Cherub, Kew Rambler.
Mostly Roses: has Blush Rambler.
Old Parliament House: Hazlewood has Blush Rambler; Tennis Courts has Cherub.
Ross: has Apple Blossom (Burbank).
Thomas for Roses: had Apple Blossom (Dawson), Blush Rambler, Kew Rambler.
Vic State garden: has Apple Blossom (Burbank), Blush Rambler, Cherub.
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I am so inexperienced and inexpert where ramblers are concerned so it’s all new and interesting for me.
I am hoping that there are rambler experts in the hmf community who can give a few pointers.
Would like to know whether there are examples of ramblers that have a continuous link to their names as a reliable starting point for comparison.
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Attached is what Thomas for Roses had as Blush Rambler, followed by what was labelled Blush Rambler at the Dunedin North cemetery, then what was labelled Apple Blossom at the Gamble Garden, SA.
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The roses sold in Australia as Blush Rambler and Cherub appear to be the same and may be the same as the roses sold as Apple Blossom (Dawson) and Apple Blossom (Burbank). As the Victoria State Garden has three of these roses, would someone please be able to check whether they are the same? A comment on the amount of prickles on the plants would also be appreciated.
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#7 of 9 posted
22 DEC 22 by
HubertG
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I found a photo of 'Cherub', a young plant growing on a fence, in a 1932 newspaper. Detail isn't great but it may be useful.
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I have a 'Blush Rambler' purchased from Vintage Gardens in 2004. It is a very upright growing rose with canes thick enough to allow it to form a 8' vase shaped shrub. When Ann Belovich visited almost a decade ago, she was not certain if it was correctly identified. She asserts in her book on ramblers that "some roses by this name are actually Dawson's 'Apple Blossom. She further says that 'Blush Rambler' has "small, single, pink with white centers, fragrant and carried in large clusters." As for 'Apple Blossom', she says "single light pink flowers with white centers blooming in large clusters..."
My rose is not single and none of the photos on this page are single. I would think that any rose just one generation from 'Crimson Rambler' as 'Blush Rambler' is, would have a profusion of glandular bristles on the pedicles and peduncles just as 'Crimson Rambler' does, and that would be a good indication of the true rose.
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Thanks for your input Palustrus. Just yesterday I added those references.
Re: Apple Blossom
Ann has written Dawson’s AB is semi-double, and Burbank’s is single.
This seems to counter Dan Russo’s (NEroseman)’s comment in the ‘Apple Blossom’ Burbank 1932 page, initial comment and 3 of 5 that both Apple Blossoms were the same rose.
Re: Blush Rambler
I have five first generation descendants of ‘Crimson Rambler’ and have this morning photographed the pedicels and stipules. Most pedicels were glandular. However, the biggest surprise for me was my presumed ‘Excelsa’ with pedicels as smooth as a baby’s bottom. However, I know in the ‘Excelsa’ comments I have written “…..the tiny hairs, but on 'Excelsa' they are much fewer and they sparsely populate the pedicels”.
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Looks like I have paid to be a premium member before I registered to be one. So how do I get to use premium membership when my account doesn't recognized I signed up as a premium member ?
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Try logging out and then log in again.
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Hmmmm...it didn't work but thanks for the reply anyway. I'm trying to find HMF contact info. It's like a labyrinth on this website, lol!
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#3 of 4 posted
9 DEC 22 by
jedmar
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There is a tab at top left saying "Contact Us"
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I finally found the "contact us" tab under "site features." And it is the only page has that link on my screen which seems different from yours. I wonder if it's a result of different browsers ? Anyway thank you very much for helping me :)
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