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most recent 9 JUN HIDE POSTS
Initial post 9 JUN by odinthor
It turns out that the correct spelling is "Brant-Hentz." Misspelling "Brandt-Hentz" appears to have originated in the pages of the ARS Annual of 1922, p. 168. The company itself was no longer in business by that time: "The Noe & Ruzicka Co. Inc. Incorporators, L. A. Noe, Jos. F. Ruzicka. Capital $ 75,000 . The above firm purchased the plant of the Brant-Hentz Floral Co. and after some changes will continue to grow roses. Mr. Brant is leaving Madison to devote his time to the extensive plant of Brant Bros. at Utica, N.Y." (from periodical Horticulture, vol. 24, 1916, p. 686).

Originally Brant and Hentz were neighbors. Here's some background from 1903, filling in some data relevant to the above quote from 1916: "One of the oldtime places still produces roses of the first class. This is the old Slaughter place, now leased by Elwood Brant. There are some seventeen houses here,accommodeating about 30,000 plants. [American] Beauties are the chief crop grown, with teas along the front benches. Two houses of Liberty and one of Meteor are also grown. The houses are antiquated compared with the modern standard, but the stock looks very good indeed and reflects great credit on Mr. Brant. He is a shrewd young man who is forging ahead and is part lessee with his brother of the immense rose houses of Peter Crowe, of Utica, N.Y. Most of the largest growers here [Madison, N.J.] live, as Mr. Dooley would say, 'beyont the thracks,' or above the railroad. Just a stone's throw from Mr. Brant is the handsome range of Henry Hentz, Jr. It is a modern plant, complete in every particular, and is of the most enduring construction. Beauties are chiefly grown. [...] Mr. Hentz is a partner of the firm of Moore, Hentz & Nash, which is the donor of the special medals offered at the show every year by the local horticultural society. [...] Not far from the last named establishments are the plants of Louis M. and Louis A. Noe, father and son respectively, the Beauty kings of Madison. Each has some nineteen or twenty houses 200 feet long and the stock can only be described as splendid." From Florists' Review, vol. 12, 1903, pp. 752-753.
Reply #1 of 1 posted 9 JUN by Patricia Routley
Brandt-Hentz corrected to Brant-Hentz. Thank you.
most recent 9 JUN HIDE POSTS
Initial post 9 JUN by odinthor
"The last entry [to the Panama-California Rose Contest at Balboa Park, San Diego] came somewhat belated from Madison, New Jersey, from the Brant-Hentz Flower Co., with the explanation that a temperature of 25 below had made an earlier shipment impossible. Among these last plants was the original rose bush which has been the mother of over 5,000 others." From periodical California Garden, vol. 3, 1912, p. 7. This "original rose bush" can only have been that of 'Madison'; Brant-Hentz had no other roses original with them, certainly none which were called upon to provide "over 5,000 others."
Reply #1 of 1 posted 9 JUN by Patricia Routley
Reference added.Thank you.
most recent 8 JUN SHOW ALL
Initial post 16 APR 18 by HubertG
The breeder's description gives the parentage as 'Alba rosea x Sylphide'.
From page 76 of the 1891 Rosen-Zeitung.
Reply #1 of 6 posted 19 APR 18 by Patricia Routley
That's different. Reference added.
Reply #2 of 6 posted 19 APR 18 by HubertG
Here's the full description from the same source:

"Neuste Rosen für 1892 (Beschreibungen der Züchter)

Züchter: Soupert & Notting - Luxemburg ...

5. Léon XIII. Strauch kräftig, hellgrüne Belaubung; Blume gross, gefüllt, in Büscheln blühend, 5 bis 6 Blumen auf jedem Zweige, schalenförmig; Farbe glänzend porzellanweiss, sehr zart gelb nuanciert im Zentrum. Varietät extra. (Alba rosea x Sylphide.)"

My translation:

Newest roses for 1892 (descriptions of the breeders)

Breeder: Soupert & Notting - Luxembourg

5. Léon XIII. Bush vigourous, light green foliage; Flower large, double, blooming in clusters, 5 to 6 flowers on each shoot, shallowly cupped; Colour lustrous porcelain white, nuanced with very delicate yellow in the centre. Exceptional variety. (Alba rosea x Sylphide.)

[Of the other four roses from Soupert & Notting described, three also have their parentages given.]
Reply #3 of 6 posted 19 APR 18 by Patricia Routley
Thank you HubertG
Reply #4 of 6 posted 7 JUN by odinthor
It's hard to tell what's going on with the parentage. In 1892, the Journal of Roses, giving "the descriptions of them copying verbatim [*textuellement*] the prospectus addressed to us, leaving all responsibility to the breeders" (the implication being that the prospectus was from the breeder), gives the parentage as 'Anna Olivier' x 'Earl of Eldon'. (Journal of Roses, 1892, p. 138 (for the "textuellement" comment) and p. 139 (for the variety's description)). I note that, the same year, Tea 'Léonie Osterrieth', also from S&N, has parentage 'La Sylphide' x 'Alba Rosea'. Maybe it's worth noting that Soupert & Notting, in listing their own varieties, would have 'Léon XIII' and 'Léonie Osterrieth' adjacent; the eye could easily skip. In his 1893 catalog, Lambert repeats the Olivier/Eldon parentage, and doesn't change/correct it in 1894.
Reply #5 of 6 posted 7 JUN by Lee H.
Just FYI, the same parentage is repeated in the 1894 Journal.
Reply #6 of 6 posted 8 JUN by odinthor
Thanks--much appreciated!
most recent 6 JUN SHOW ALL
Initial post 14 SEP 15 by Patricia Routley
I found the 1894 reference of interest. Taking a chronological look at three roses:
1874 'Jean Ducher' bred
1879 The Garden published its illustration of 'Jean Ducher' showing a prickly yellow rose.
1888 'G.Nabonnand' bred which was a creamy pink rose.
1891 'Ruby Gold' appeared
1894 'Ruby Gold' denounced as being 'Jean Ducher' reintroduced.

Despite the fact that 'G. Nabonnand' was for many years known as 'Jean Ducher', I presume that 'Ruby Gold' was being compared to the original 1874 'Jean Ducher'.
Reply #1 of 6 posted 7 APR 18 by HubertG
i found this from the 1893 Maule's seed cataolgue, page 109.

"RUBY GOLD. This new variety is a cross between Catherine Mermet and Marechal Niel, yet it shows no tendency to climb. The color of the flowers distinctly shows the yellow of M. Niel with the rich pink of C. Mermet, each petal interlaced with clear red veins. It's beautiful colorings alone suggested the name to the originator."

Interesting that it states it is a cross rather than a sport. The cross makes more sense to me rather than the description of it being a sport from C. Mermet grafted onto a M.Niel.
Reply #2 of 6 posted 7 APR 18 by Patricia Routley
Thanks HubertG. Reference added.
It would be good to know the (U.K.?) author of the 1894 reference.
The prickly yellow 'Jean Ducher' and the thornless peachy ''G. Nabonnand' are messing my thoughts up and I can't see the wood for the rose trees this morning.
Reply #3 of 6 posted 8 APR 18 by HubertG
I can't find a particular author for that 1894 comment. The original reference seems to be from 1892 written by simply "R", so presumably Robinson, the editor.
My take on it is that the 'synonymous' roses are really ones that are too similar for exhibition purposes. I don't think he's claiming that Ruby Gold is really Jean Ducher sneakily reintroduced under another name. I think he's just using a figurative expression, but I could be wrong. It's interesting that Ruby Gold is described as having clearly defined red veining, which is also something that distinctly shows up on the 1893 'Garden Illustrated' photo of Jean Ducher.
I think that G. Nabonnand has nothing to do with Jean Ducher apart from being G. Nabonnand being incorrectly identified as J Ducher in New Zealand, and that error spread. There is certainly no veining on G. Nabonnand or Peace.
Reply #4 of 6 posted 8 APR 18 by Patricia Routley
Yes. I can see clearly now....(she sings). I certainly had that impression in my initial comment: "I presume that 'Ruby Gold' was being compared to the original 1874 'Jean Ducher'."
Thanks HubertG.
Reply #5 of 6 posted 5 JUN by odinthor
It's Foster-Melliar, Book of the Rose, who is stating that "'Ruby Gold', a Rose sent out from America, appears to be identical with 'Jean Ducher'."
Reply #6 of 6 posted 6 JUN by Patricia Routley
Thank you Brent. You can’t get better than Foster-Melliar and George Paul. If it wasn’t for that dastardly 1893 reference, I would merge ‘Ruby Gold’ with ‘Jean Ducher’ like a shot.
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